Trek Emonda creaky bottom bracket

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Boardman
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:53 pm

by Boardman

Hi guys. I was hoping other Emonda owners could share their experience.

I have an Emonda that I love, however over the summer I was chasing down a noisy drive train which morphed into a creaky bottom bracket.

I swapped out the BB a few weeks ago for some genuine Trek bearings. After replacing them the BB was silent. Over the course of a few rides the BB has gradually got more noisy.

I spoke to the shop I bought them from (Trek dealer) and they told me they would only install them with grease which I did.

I'm loathe to re-grease the bearings every handful of rides. Any other Emonda riders have suggestions?

Thanks

by Weenie


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oldnslow2
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:50 pm

by oldnslow2

Which Emonda?

ALR/S/SL/SLR

What crank?

Boardman
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:53 pm

by Boardman

My bad. Emonda SL, Ultegra 6800 crank

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oldnslow2
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:50 pm

by oldnslow2

I have a SLR with Red... absolutely quiet.

I have 2 friends with SLs and they ave no issues.

Ask the LBS to contact the Trek Rep if they can't resolve it.

Valbrona
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

by Valbrona

1/ Bit more pre-load.
2/ Apply thin organic oil in addition to the grease already there. Grease dries out over time.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yes, that's all about I could think of to try... is a little more preload. If you're running a Shimano crank for example, it's pretty difficult to know exactly how much preload you're applying. Shimano will say to just turn the nut "finger tight" onto the splines, but it doesn't exactly slide super freely on those splines. I might be inclinded to tighten it up pretty good initially to make sure you've really bottomed out the bearings in their seats, then back it off a tad before locking it all down. I've had no issues with my Emonda, but I'm running a Campy Ultratorque crank and the bearings are pressed onto the spindle so there is probably less wiggle room for the bearings to move around in the shell, which is what causes the creaks. I've heard more about creaky Treks in years past than present. I've been super happy with my Emonda, purchased in 2014 and used in cruddy wet weather.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

nemeseri
Posts: 702
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm

by nemeseri

Hey, I had to play a little bit with my emonda's BB but at the end I was able to achieve silent operation. I also used the stock trek bearings.

A couple of tips:
1., Order some high quality grease and put as much on the side of the bearings and BB shell as possible.
(for example morgan blue aquaproof paste or white lightning crystal grease)
2., use proper bearing press bushings to align the bearings properly
3., make sure that you add enough preload to the cranks. play with it a bit to get it tight but not too tight. In the case of BB90 I find that the right amount of preload is more important than with other standards.

Good luck!

EDIT: see Calnago's opinion about aquaproof. He might be right. Although the high quality grease still stands.
Last edited by nemeseri on Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yes, I should have mentioned what Nemeseri did in that even though BB90 is a "slipfit" versus an interference fit, a proper press with the right bushings will help ensure the bearings are actually aligned with each other. This is a step you don't do with the Campy install since the bearings are pressed onto the cranks themselves.
Also, I'd not use Morgan Blue Aquaproof paste anywhere around actual moving bearings. That is definitely not what it is intended for. It is really a high adhesion kind of antiseize, which if you could isolate its application to just the surface between the outer bearing and the inside of the BB shell, then fine, but in the case of this BB, it may be a little more difficult to accomplish that. It's really for things like pressed in headset cups, and pressfit cups of Bottom Brackets, but not moving bearings.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

nemeseri
Posts: 702
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm

by nemeseri

Calnago wrote:Yes, I should have mentioned what Nemeseri did in that even though BB90 is a "slipfit" versus an interference fit, a proper press with the right bushings will help ensure the bearings are actually aligned with each other. This is a step you don't do with the Campy install since the bearings are pressed onto the cranks themselves.
Also, I'd not use Morgan Blue Aquaproof paste anywhere around actual moving bearings. That is definitely not what it is intended for. It is really a high adhesion kind of antiseize, which if you could isolate its application to just the surface between the outer bearing and the inside of the BB shell, then fine, but in the case of this BB, it may be a little more difficult to accomplish that. It's really for things like pressed in headset cups, and pressfit cups of Bottom Brackets, but not moving bearings.


A couple of months ago I followed your advice on the preload and it helped. I did not dig up the thread, but thanks! :thumbup:

Boardman
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:53 pm

by Boardman

I'm really grateful for all the replies :beerchug:

I called the shop who sold me the bearings and they also mentioned about using a bit more pre load on the bearings. I've ever only done these up finger tight so I'll inspect and give them a bit more to see what effect that has.

I don't think grease is the issue as I use a really good quality grease which I found lasts longer than other greases I've used.

To be fair my old 5.2 Madone gave me much less grief (till I broke it). I could replace the bearings without a press and it was fit and forget. I never had to touch them.

Interestingly, my LBS recommended against using loctite if all else fails which is contradictory to some of the other manufacturers.

I'll report back once I can get out and ride the old girl. That might be a while as the weather in the UK is CRAAAAP !!

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Loctite in the case of Trek's BB90 would really be a last resort for me as well, even though I'm a big advocate of it in almost all Pressfit applications (which this is not) from the begininng. However, if all else fails, it really is your only option, and will work just fine. Just curious, if in fact all else does fail, what does your LBS recommend in the alternative?
If it did come down to the Loctite route, then use a retaining compound like Loctite 609 with primer since carbon is inactive, and be very careful to try to keep it just between the outer races of the bearing and the shell itself (don't let it seep into the actual bearing behind the seals). If you went this route, I'd also absolutely make sure you use a press with proper size drifts just to ensure you get them aligned in the shell before the Loctite sets up. I think Trek also had available some slightly oversize bearings for problematic shells which might help, but I think the newer Treks have largely got very good tolerances in their BB90 shells. Since yours is an Emonda, I think the shell is probably pretty good, and would guess that just a reinstall, or tightening up the preload a bit should solve your issues. Make sure it's all clean in there as well.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

Boardman
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:53 pm

by Boardman

More good advice, thanks.

My LBS didn't go into specifics about Loctite just that they felt in their opinion the bearings would be a butch to remove and 'knacker' the carbon.

Being ignorant in all things Loctite I just took onboard what they said and came straight here for some popular opinion

cth6
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:25 am

by cth6

Make sure you don't need one of the plus sized bearings. As soon as the grease wears out they creak. Easy way to tell is to see if you can remove the bearing by hand (no drift) with minimal force. It comes out too easy and you many try the larger bearing.

Boardman
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:53 pm

by Boardman

cth6 wrote:Make sure you don't need one of the plus sized bearings. As soon as the grease wears out they creak. Easy way to tell is to see if you can remove the bearing by hand (no drift) with minimal force. It comes out too easy and you many try the larger bearing.


Definitely can't move the bearings without drift/press.

So I undid the crank arm bolts and low and behold the bearing preload cap was looser than I would have done it up.

I retorqued it to normal finger tight and then a bit. I also got the torque wrench on the crank arm bolts and torqued them to 12nm. Normally I would torque them finger tight.

Could the bearing preload come loose as the crank arm bolts were not torqued correctly?

:beerchug: :beerchug: :beerchug:

goodboyr
Posts: 1393
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Location: Canada

by goodboyr

Here's how to do the preload right. With pinch bolts loose, tighten down preload until cranks are stiff to turn, then back it off 1/8 a turn. Check cranks turn smooth and free. By tightening farther than you need, it will take out any play. What happened to you is that there was still play in the system that you didn't take out when you slightly tightened it.

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by Weenie


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