Race Clincher Tyre

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
possibleweenie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm

by possibleweenie

Rubik wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
IF you are on hills, riding in clubs, in bunches, or even in pairs, or in any situation that requires you to brake relatively frequently...the answer is a solid, undeniable, NO. It will be very unsafe and you risk serious injury if you have a blow out on your front tire. This is regardless of whether you follow due protocol on braking pads, technique and so on.

Latex does not go well with carbon clinchers.


I don't know a single person that has experienced what you just described. Could be I ride with the luckiest people in the world, but probably not.


Maybe you are lucky. I wouldn't know. I really like using latex tubes in my tubed tires and I was thinking of getting carbon clinchers, but I was put off by many reports of the heat generated by the heat making latex fail. I do live in hilly areas so I did focus more on braking in descents rather than long rides.

dereksmalls
Posts: 2042
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:20 pm
Location: New Zealand

by dereksmalls

Veloflex Master or Specialized Turbo cotton or Continental TT

by Weenie


Rubik
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:59 pm

by Rubik

possibleweenie wrote:
Rubik wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
IF you are on hills, riding in clubs, in bunches, or even in pairs, or in any situation that requires you to brake relatively frequently...the answer is a solid, undeniable, NO. It will be very unsafe and you risk serious injury if you have a blow out on your front tire. This is regardless of whether you follow due protocol on braking pads, technique and so on.

Latex does not go well with carbon clinchers.


I don't know a single person that has experienced what you just described. Could be I ride with the luckiest people in the world, but probably not.


Maybe you are lucky. I wouldn't know. I really like using latex tubes in my tubed tires and I was thinking of getting carbon clinchers, but I was put off by many reports of the heat generated by the heat making latex fail. I do live in hilly areas so I did focus more on braking in descents rather than long rides.


Well, I don't know. I race in 7-8 states, most of which have hills. All of which have lots of corners around which we go pretty quickly. Seems like a nonissue to me, but to each their own.
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Pokerface07
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:43 pm

by Pokerface07

possibleweenie wrote:
Pokerface07 wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
Pokerface07 wrote:I've been using Corsa G+ on one set of training wheels and Michelein Comps on another. The Corsa tyres just don't last. Both are good tyres though. My next road race I'm going with the Michelin's.

I race TTs on the Cross Speed tubs. But they are are fragile tyre and wouldn't want to use them for road racing (even the clincher version.)


Are you saying that you get more miles out of the Power Comps than the Corsas, or that the Corsas are more fragile and therefore don't last? I read that the Power Comps are notably more fragile than the Corsas or the previous Pro4 SC.


I've been getting better mileage out of the Comps. And have have had 2 sidewall failures on Corsas now. Also noticed the tread area on the Corsas goes quite 'flat' and wears down easily. I still like the Corsas though, but the rolling resistance tests seem to indicate the Comps are a bit faster?



I see. Well, I am looking into getting a supple ride more than a fast tire. I have also become a bit of a sucker for the gum/tan wall because I have seen photos on how they look on matt black bikes and I am liking that look becaue I have a full matt black bike.

One solution I am thinking of using is latex with sealant, which apparently mate very well. In any case...

Two tests (bicyclerollingresistance and bikeradar with wheelenergey lab) confirm that Schwalbe Pro One and Michelin Power Comp are as fast as each other, with the Michelin winning in one lab and Schwalbe winning on another. On that same note, the fastest possible tire, and also likely to be supple and beautiful but infamously frail, is the Corsa Speed TLR tubeless only available in 23c. If you are racing, the Corsa Speed TLR is about 25% faster than either the Power Comp or the Pro One. So yes, you are riding on one of the fastest clinchers around already.

Do you find the Power Comp to be as supple/smooth as the Corsas? Are they comparable or is it like night and day?


To be clear - I use the TUBULAR version of the Cross Speed (for time trials as they were meant for!). I don't use the clincher version (for anything).

Next - I'm not the BEST judge of feel for tyres (although I can always tell the difference between a really good and really bad tyre and those that have massively different feels to them). For me, both the Corsa and Michelin ride really well. Just to look at them, the COsra has visible tread whilst the Michelin is completely smooth - but it still has loads of grip.

I've used both he 23 and 25mm Corsa and didn't find a huge difference between them (but tend to run lower pressure in the 25mm ones). I'm usually doing 500-700km a week and that can be split 30/70 between Michelin and Corsa usually (but sometimes 100% Michelin!).

Like I said - for me, both good tyres. I'll see how my races go with the Michelins! (Previously I was racing solely on Corsa G Tubular tyres, but can't take my tubular wheels to my next race).
Twitter: @FormerTTchamp https://twitter.com/FormerTTchamp

3Pio
Posts: 879
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Pokerface07 wrote:I've been using Corsa G+ on one set of training wheels and Michelein Comps on another. The Corsa tyres just don't last. Both are good tyres though. My next road race I'm going with the Michelin's.

I race TTs on the Cross Speed tubs. But they are are fragile tyre and wouldn't want to use them for road racing (even the clincher version.)


I used Corsa G+ Clinchers 25mm with Latex innertubes for 3200 km without flats or problems.I removed just to try Continental 4000 23mm, and im sure i'll have at least 4000 km on Corsa's. Tubular version lastet less (1850 km for rear tire).

From those tires, i can say that i prefer 4000 S II (allready have 500 km on them) after i settle out the pressures for my weight (im 73-74 kg) and using now 6.0 BAR in front 6.5 in Rear. Nice grip, light, i can feel them very fast (faster then Corsa 's ).Also feel them very supple with latex inner tubes i use (vittoria). Corsa just brake a bit better

Probably i'll try Continental in tubular version as well.

About Latex probably more risk on carbon clinchers, but im using them on my Shamals for last two years, a lot of climbing/downhill, and in very hot areas (this summer there was almost a month riding on 40 deg C), and never had an issue or tire blown up. And im not the best descender, so brake more often then perfect.

possibleweenie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm

by possibleweenie

Pokerface07 wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
Pokerface07 wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
To be clear - I use the TUBULAR version of the Cross Speed (for time trials as they were meant for!). I don't use the clincher version (for anything).

Next - I'm not the BEST judge of feel for tyres (although I can always tell the difference between a really good and really bad tyre and those that have massively different feels to them). For me, both the Corsa and Michelin ride really well. Just to look at them, the COsra has visible tread whilst the Michelin is completely smooth - but it still has loads of grip.

I've used both he 23 and 25mm Corsa and didn't find a huge difference between them (but tend to run lower pressure in the 25mm ones). I'm usually doing 500-700km a week and that can be split 30/70 between Michelin and Corsa usually (but sometimes 100% Michelin!).

Like I said - for me, both good tyres. I'll see how my races go with the Michelins! (Previously I was racing solely on Corsa G Tubular tyres, but can't take my tubular wheels to my next race).


Thanks a lot. That really helps me in looking for my next pair of tires. Yes, I somehow understood that you may be using tubulars but now that I know, I see where you experience comes from and get a better idea on where you are at.

It looks like the Corsas, clincher version, appear to have some good batches and some not so good batches coming out the factory. Some people claim to be constantly ripping them and others say they have no issues and run for a while. With that in mind, I will probably sit on it and look elsewhere. Apparently the Vredestein Superiore uses the same cotton casing as the Corsas but with a different tread and puncture protection layer (another user just mentioned on another thread)

Maybe I'll give those a try.

Also looking at Veloflex because of a place I found them selling them for 28eur, but I am not so hot on the 23mm real width on their 25c tires....

Thanks again

User avatar
Pokerface07
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:43 pm

by Pokerface07

possibleweenie wrote:
Pokerface07 wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
Pokerface07 wrote:


Thanks a lot. That really helps me in looking for my next pair of tires. Yes, I somehow understood that you may be using tubulars but now that I know, I see where you experience comes from and get a better idea on where you are at.

It looks like the Corsas, clincher version, appear to have some good batches and some not so good batches coming out the factory. Some people claim to be constantly ripping them and others say they have no issues and run for a while. With that in mind, I will probably sit on it and look elsewhere. Apparently the Vredestein Superiore uses the same cotton casing as the Corsas but with a different tread and puncture protection layer (another user just mentioned on another thread)

Maybe I'll give those a try.

Also looking at Veloflex because of a place I found them selling them for 28eur, but I am not so hot on the 23mm real width on their 25c tires....

Thanks again


I use tubular Corsa Speed and Cross G for racing. But CLINCHER Corsa and Michelin tyres for training.
Twitter: @FormerTTchamp https://twitter.com/FormerTTchamp

possibleweenie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm

by possibleweenie

Pokerface07 wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:
Pokerface07 wrote:
possibleweenie wrote:


Thanks a lot. That really helps me in looking for my next pair of tires. Yes, I somehow understood that you may be using tubulars but now that I know, I see where you experience comes from and get a better idea on where you are at.

It looks like the Corsas, clincher version, appear to have some good batches and some not so good batches coming out the factory. Some people claim to be constantly ripping them and others say they have no issues and run for a while. With that in mind, I will probably sit on it and look elsewhere. Apparently the Vredestein Superiore uses the same cotton casing as the Corsas but with a different tread and puncture protection layer (another user just mentioned on another thread)

Maybe I'll give those a try.

Also looking at Veloflex because of a place I found them selling them for 28eur, but I am not so hot on the 23mm real width on their 25c tires....

Thanks again


I use tubular Corsa Speed and Cross G for racing. But CLINCHER Corsa and Michelin tyres for training.


Gotcha! Thanks again!

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3773
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

The best tyre depends on the road surface, weather.

I have used conti competition tubulars, conti GP4000sII tubulars, vittoria pave tubulars, vittoria corsa tubular, dugast fast bird (MTB) and clinchers, veloflex corsa clinchers with latex tubes, conti GP 4 seasons, conti GP4000s II clinchers with latex tubes, Vittoria Corsa Clinchers with latex tubes, specialised something or other for racing and I prefer IRC tubeless tyres. The tubs are good but they are expensive if they puncture and they do. tubeless can heal themsleves so that better as you finish.

I dont buy the good batch and bad batch theory. it is all luck sometime you get unlucky. sometimes unlucky with many tyre. Currently the club anomoly is over Mr Denny. He is puncturing everything he tries. The anomoly will move one it always does. It could be you next or me.

in short there are so many good tyres you need to try a few.

possibleweenie
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:21 pm

by possibleweenie

bm0p700f wrote:The best tyre depends on the road surface, weather.

I have used conti competition tubulars, conti GP4000sII tubulars, vittoria pave tubulars, vittoria corsa tubular, dugast fast bird (MTB) and clinchers, veloflex corsa clinchers with latex tubes, conti GP 4 seasons, conti GP4000s II clinchers with latex tubes, Vittoria Corsa Clinchers with latex tubes, specialised something or other for racing and I prefer IRC tubeless tyres. The tubs are good but they are expensive if they puncture and they do. tubeless can heal themsleves so that better as you finish.

I dont buy the good batch and bad batch theory. it is all luck sometime you get unlucky. sometimes unlucky with many tyre. Currently the club anomoly is over Mr Denny. He is puncturing everything he tries. The anomoly will move one it always does. It could be you next or me.

in short there are so many good tyres you need to try a few.


Wise words and I think that's exactly what I'll do! I was thinking earlier that I will get a pair of the more affordable ones: Corsa G+, Veloflex and Vreds, latex them up, see what happens. Since return policies are good all of these are 320tpi, if I am not too impressed or keen after trying random 2 pairs, I'll return the third one and report back here, especially on the Vredestein since they seem to be the more obscure ones. At least that can come out out of it.

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