Anything better than the caad for an alloy frame? Cinelli?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ryanw
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by ryanw

evan326 wrote:You mean one that comes with 9100, or another update to the caad12 already?


Yep, the purple DA9120 model.

However, may be buying a 2016 S Works Tarmac Di2 this week, so depends on that.
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eyedrop
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by eyedrop

The best aluminum frame out there is definitely going to be the one with your optimal geometry. Do yourself a favor and find out your ideal stack and reach measurements. Have a professional bike fitter fit you onto an adjustable stationary bike and calculate your ideal fit coordinates. Base all of your future bike purchases on this. If your serious about performance, you know that the correct geometry is key to being able to produce watts.

No sense in just randomly selecting a frame based purely on weight, materials, brand, etc. Thinking like that is foolish.... As long as the frame is reasonably light and stiff, you will be good to go...

MisterMuncher
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by MisterMuncher

What that man said, every time. Maybe not the fitter part, I've anyways trusted a test ride more. I'm of a body type that suits CAAD geometry, and therefore a SuperSix as well. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't matter how light or stiff it is. You'll be miserable, and trying to justify your outlay. Hence I have a Synapse frame I can't really be bothered building into a full bike. It's a nice frame, does everything it is supposed to do, but it's just too short and tall. I rode it for a year happily enough, before I got the CAAD, at which point it just gathered dust.

My CAAD is my choice for any ride shy of 150Km, or of less than 1000m climb. It's not heavy, uncomfortable, or unpleasant in any way, I've done 250k on it. It's a fantastic bike.

Marin
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by Marin

I think I'm missing something regarding geometry - once you have your setback dialed, you can get any fit with any frame by adjusting seatpost and stem?

So the frame numbers just dictate with which stem and with how much post showing you'll ride, right?

CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

Marin wrote:I think I'm missing something regarding geometry - once you have your setback dialed, you can get any fit with any frame by adjusting seatpost and stem?

So the frame numbers just dictate with which stem and with how much post showing you'll ride, right?



essentially, but frames differ and there will be some that will be easier to get where you want them to be and some that won't be easy and obviously, if the frame is drastically mis-sized, then no amount of adjustment will get you correct.

i think's funny when someone chimes in with the, "the best bike is the one that fits." argument.... as if everyone that has offered an opinion to them is suggesting a frame that's poorly fit. Yes, of course, buy a frame that fits, no one is suggesting otherwise, but the OP is asking, "assuming, I'm looking at frame that are all the correct size, which one is better?"
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boysa
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by boysa

You can set up stack and reach to be identical, but it doesn't mean the bike will handle the same. There are differences in trail, front-center, center-rear, etc. It also doesn't mean the bike will be balanced underneath you. This is most obvious if you've ever been on a frame where you have to "think" about your position when you stand up to sprint. If the geometry doesn't suit you, you encounter situations where either the front wheel will pull off the ground or the rear wheel will spin. Inevitably, you end up making an adjustment to counter these undesired effects.

Ideally, the bike should be an extension of your body. No thinking about where your weight is positioned either when sprinting or cornering. When the geometry is correct, it is glorious.
Last edited by boysa on Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cheers!
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by Cheers!

Pegorretti Love #3?

byjinu
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by byjinu

I think CAAD batter than Cinelli

Because CAAD is famous for its alloy frame and more cheap

I think the price of Cinelli performance is poor

Fiery
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:21 am

by Fiery

boysa wrote:You can set up stack and reach to be identical, but it doesn't mean the bike will handle the same. There are differences in trail, front-center, center-rear, etc. It also doesn't mean the bike will be balanced underneath you. This is most obvious if you've ever been on a frame where you have to "think" about your position when you stand up to sprint. If the geometry doesn't suit you, you encounter situations where either the front wheel will pull off the ground or the rear wheel will spin. Inevitably, you end up making an adjustment to counter these undesired effects.

Ideally, the bike should be an extension of your body. No thinking about where your weight is positioned either when sprinting or cornering. When the geometry is correct, it is glorious.

So true, and there's indeed way more to it than just stack and reach as determined by someone fitting you on a stationary bike.

Marin
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by Marin

Umm but all road bikes have essentially the same angles and trail numbers. Plus, when people say "the geometry suits me better" they usually mean the fit and not the handling.

Fiery
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by Fiery

In my experience, it's the small differences that matter. This is why I've replaced one bike where the contact points fit me well with another one, where the contact points also fit me well. The first one was the wrong size/geometry for me.

Bluechip
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by Bluechip

I tend to keep my bikes a while before upgrading. My first CAAD (not my first Cannondale) was a CAAD4 which I loved the ride but hated the color (Saeco red/yellow). I replaced it with a Trek 5900. I really wanted a carbon bike at the time. While it was a nice bike it just didn't have the handling or feel that I liked. I never got completely comfortable cornering or on fast descents. I then picked up a CAAD9 and am still riding it. I love it. I am sure I will try a carbon bike in the near future but I am also sure I will get a CAAD12 too. The geometries on all of those bikes was very similar but the Trek just never felt right to me while the Cannondales just felt perfect. I've rented several brands of bikes but have never liked them as much as the Cannondales.

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mpulsiv
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by mpulsiv

eyedrop wrote:The best aluminum frame out there is definitely going to be the one with your optimal geometry. Do yourself a favor and find out your ideal stack and reach measurements. Have a professional bike fitter fit you onto an adjustable stationary bike and calculate your ideal fit coordinates. Base all of your future bike purchases on this. If your serious about performance, you know that the correct geometry is key to being able to produce watts.

No sense in just randomly selecting a frame based purely on weight, materials, brand, etc. Thinking like that is foolish.... As long as the frame is reasonably light and stiff, you will be good to go...


There are enough resources online to understand the fundamentals of bike fit. With enough patience and knowledge, one can have nearly identical setup, whether it's compact geometry, race, endurance or traditional geometry. For example, http://www.bikegeo.net is a great resource to get started. I have done this before without professional bike fitter (cough, cough). Sorry, I don't have much faith in bike fitters unless it's Steve Hog method http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/faq
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boysa
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by boysa

Marin wrote:Umm but all road bikes have essentially the same angles and trail numbers. Plus, when people say "the geometry suits me better" they usually mean the fit and not the handling.


I respectfully disagree. Look at the differences between Colnago and Cervelo. They are not essentially the same. I could get my contact points on both frames to be identical, but where I'm balanced on the frame is going to be very different. This will impact how the frame handles and how it reacts when I need to push it. In addition, to get things to match up, I may need a longer/shorter stem, longer/shorter reach bars, etc. This will also impact the ride.

I'd argue when most people say "the geometry suits me better" they have NO IDEA what the hell they are talking about. 8)

Haha. I am one who believes when things "fit," this equates to the word "disappear." When it is right, you don't think about it or even notice it. Good sunglasses are the ones you say, "Damn, I lost my sunglasses. Oh wait, they're on my face! I didn't even realize I was wearing them." Same goes for shoes, shorts, helmet, etc. Same for the frame. Those items that seamlessly blend in, the ones where we aren't fiddling all the time or making adjustments, those are sublime.
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CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

boysa wrote:
Marin wrote:Umm but all road bikes have essentially the same angles and trail numbers. Plus, when people say "the geometry suits me better" they usually mean the fit and not the handling.


I respectfully disagree. Look at the differences between Colnago and Cervelo. They are not essentially the same. I could get my contact points on both frames to be identical, but where I'm balanced on the frame is going to be very different. This will impact how the frame handles and how it reacts when I need to push it. In addition, to get things to match up, I may need a longer/shorter stem, longer/shorter reach bars, etc. This will also impact the ride.

I'd argue when most people say "the geometry suits me better" they have NO IDEA what the hell they are talking about. 8)

Haha. I am one who believes when things "fit," this equates to the word "disappear." When it is right, you don't think about it or even notice it. Good sunglasses are the ones you say, "Damn, I lost my sunglasses. Oh wait, they're on my face! I didn't even realize I was wearing them." Same goes for shoes, shorts, helmet, etc. Same for the frame. Those items that seamlessly blend in, the ones where we aren't fiddling all the time or making adjustments, those are sublime.



I agree with you that not all frames share the same numbers... in fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any (from different manufacturers) that match exactly. I'd disagree with your statement about "I'd argue when most people say "the geometry suits me better" they have NO IDEA what the hell they are talking about, " though. I think most people have an understanding of how geometry should fit, or at least on a basic level. Most people would realize that someone 5'0" can't ride a 61cm frame and vice versa, but I do agree that almost know one (lay people at least) has an understanding of how geometry effects the way a bike handles.
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