Lightest (useable) saddle in the world

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Marin
Posts: 2819
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

It's not only what you say, but also how you say it :D

by Weenie


User avatar
cyclespeed
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

I have a G1 saddle and seatpost on their way to me, so happy to share my views / info, when they arrive.

weightdoesmatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:49 am

by weightdoesmatter

cyclespeed wrote:I have a G1 saddle and seatpost on their way to me, so happy to share my views / info, when they arrive.


That's good to know cyclespeed! Please share your impressions with the rest of the community! I believe that at least you will be judged as an impartial member :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just to fresh the air a bit, something that's not cycling related but still cool (at least to me):

Image

Image

Or even some nautical projects

Image


Regarding the width of the saddles. I've made this feedback reaching Anghel since he doesn't have time to see this (or other) forum which i believe is part of being a full time aircraft (composites) repairer + part time Gelu manager/creator/seller/etc! He has his theory for that, which i will ask him to write something about so that i can share will you guys!

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 6225
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Late to this party, but for what it's worth, I see nothing wrong with sharing new product ideas or innovations on the forum, whether it is your first post or your 1000th. And that's not to be confused with blatant advertising, which I don't think this was or is.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

TheKaiser
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

...Getting back to the saddles...Does anyone, including the OP, who has laid hands on these things, have any info on how flexible they are?

From my experience, flex in the shell is key for comfort in an unpadded saddle. I have had Flight Evo's that were quite comfortable due to the flex, but have recently acquired a bunch of light weight generic Chinese carbon saddles that are super rigid despite their light weight, which was disappointing. I've heard some of the light German carbon saddles have some nice springiness to them, but haven't actually laid hands on one.

Obviously shell shape is key for building in flex, or not, and the fiber type and layup, but I have wondered if the resin used might also make a difference. These Gelu's have a lot of ergonomic contouring with relief channels and such, as well as a nice full coverage shell so your thighs don't rub on the edge of the shell, but all of those lateral arcs in the saddle cross section seem like they may make it excessively rigid unless the layup and resin are made to add flex back in deliberately.

User avatar
cyclespeed
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

I agree that flex in the shell is a key part of comfort. I have ridden AX Lightness saddles for over 10 years, and they flex nicely. People look at them and say, ouch how can you ride that?, but I find the comfier than just about any saddle out there. You don't need padding on the saddle, that's what your bib shorts are for.

User avatar
BRM
Posts: 817
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:43 pm

by BRM

The key part of comfort is a saddle what match your rear
eg When you have wide sitbones a (too) small saddle never will be comfortable.

TheKaiser
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

cyclespeed wrote:I agree that flex in the shell is a key part of comfort. I have ridden AX Lightness saddles for over 10 years, and they flex nicely. People look at them and say, ouch how can you ride that?, but I find the comfier than just about any saddle out there. You don't need padding on the saddle, that's what your bib shorts are for.


Yes, they can be super comfortable if they have some give, and also the slippery shell can be great for reducing chafing, especially with a wider nosed saddle design, or if one has large diameter thighs.

User avatar
cyclespeed
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

BRM wrote:The key part of comfort is a saddle what match your rear
eg When you have wide sitbones a (too) small saddle never will be comfortable.


From road.cc today, talking about Fizik's approach to saddles;

The Italian company undertook a three year study in collaboration with Professor Rodger Kram of the University of Colorado integrative Physiology Department Locomotion Lab and they found that the width of your sit bones make no real difference to the width of the saddle you should be riding (they do if you ride a more upright bike). Instead what their research found was that the determining factors in whether a wider or narrower saddle would work better for a a performance cyclist was a combination of weight and power output/speed.

antonioiglesius
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:08 pm

by antonioiglesius

IIRC Fizik introduced versions of Arione, Aliante and Antares with different widths at the most recent Eurobike. Does this mean Fizik is trying to prove that Fizik is wrong?

Saddle manufacturers never have to be accountable for their products, all they need to do is to have sufficient marketing to convince you to buy. After all, if it doesn't work out, "everyone's bum is different".

TheKaiser
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

cyclespeed wrote:
BRM wrote:The key part of comfort is a saddle what match your rear
eg When you have wide sitbones a (too) small saddle never will be comfortable.


From road.cc today, talking about Fizik's approach to saddles;

The Italian company undertook a three year study in collaboration with Professor Rodger Kram of the University of Colorado integrative Physiology Department Locomotion Lab and they found that the width of your sit bones make no real difference to the width of the saddle you should be riding (they do if you ride a more upright bike). Instead what their research found was that the determining factors in whether a wider or narrower saddle would work better for a a performance cyclist was a combination of weight and power output/speed.


It is true that the higher your power output the more weight will be born by your feet, so if you were trying to keep PSI static then you could reduce saddle surface area and come out the same. The thing is though, if you look at a pressure heatmap, pressure isn't evenly distributed all over the saddle, it is concentrated on skeletal structures, so it couldn't be a 1 - 1 ratio of reducing pressure and surface area. If we were to accept that it was all about PSI though, then that would mean that a heavier rider of the same power output should run a wider saddle than their skinny counterpart.

I am inclined to think that power output can certainly play a role in how comfortable a wide/narrow saddle is, but it certainly isn't the sole determinant.

They may be right that sit bone width doesn't correlate to saddle preference, except on a more upright bike, but that is because performance riders rotate their pelvises forward to a degree that the sit bones are no longer actually the primary load bearing skeletal structures. The pubic ramus is actually the bone structure that most of us sit on, and it is a heck of a lot more difficult to measure accurately. So in my opinion, Fizik is right, but for the wrong reasons. It is not that skeletal structure width is unimportant, it is just that saddle makers/bike shops are using measuring the wrong structure (and sit bone width is not a good proxy of pubic ramus width as the ratio is not fixed).

tarmackev
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

weightdoesmatter wrote:
cyclespeed wrote:I have a G1 saddle and seatpost on their way to me, so happy to share my views / info, when they arrive.


That's good to know cyclespeed! Please share your impressions with the rest of the community! I believe that at least you will be judged as an impartial member :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just to fresh the air a bit, something that's not cycling related but still cool (at least to me):

Image

Image

Or even some nautical projects

Image


Regarding the width of the saddles. I've made this feedback reaching Anghel since he doesn't have time to see this (or other) forum which i believe is part of being a full time aircraft (composites) repairer + part time Gelu manager/creator/seller/etc! He has his theory for that, which i will ask him to write something about so that i can share will you guys!


OP thanks for sharing, I don't understand the negativity.
Looks like some really cool products, I hope your friend has success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MarkTwain
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:51 pm

by MarkTwain

trimenc wrote:BRM is EXACTLY why many of us have been reading this forum for a long time and not posting.

Actually this has gone on in here since...forever really. Go back and have a read. Users have always called out something that smells sus.

So its business as usual with BRM's posts.

weightdoesmatter
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:49 am

by weightdoesmatter

Hey everyone,

As for the saddle widths, here is Anghel's explanation to the fact that carbon saddles must not be wide, contradicting a lot of "big" names.

Sorry for any grammar mistake, but this was translated by me of what he said.

The concept behind Gelu's saddle has a different approach than normal in which the hip width is taken into account.

Carbon saddles must fit between the ischium bones and the tip of the bone must be free, without making pressure on the saddle shell. The idea is the angle of the saddle follow the angle of the inner part of the ischium bones in order to get a 2-3cm support on each side. Knowing that Men have an average distance of 8.5cm between the 2 tips of the ischium and Women have an average distance of 10.5cm, carbon saddles must not be wide because since they are made from a rigid material, that extra width will only cause discomfort and add extra weight.


Image
(the red lines are the place where the bones must touch the saddle)


Gelu saddles don't lie! The feeling you get when you first sit on it is the same feeling you have after hours because it doesn't deform. The secret is to find the right configuration for anyone and having into account that no one has and inner ischium angle inferior to 45º nor superior to 65º, Gelu developed four saddle shapes which should fit pretty much everyone. Apart from that, of course the fact that they're made of carbon fiber, they will obviously flex a bit and that is actually why the saddle rails of Gelu saddles cover the minimum amount possible of the saddle shell, to allow it to flex.


Of course, in order to find the perfect saddle shape, people should test them all and that is why they at Gelu allow people to test the saddles for a period before a purchase. Of course this is easier to make possible for people who live closer to them.


Hope this helps! :wink:

User avatar
corky
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:53 pm
Location: The Surrey Hills

by corky

Worth a try I think......it's a good theory, maybe a demo program would help?

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post