Who produces Canyon frames?

[GazRM45]

I’ve owned Cyfac’s since 2006. No Chinese take aways around here.

[wheelsONfire]

Question is what the frames/ bikes would cost if manufactured in EU and/ or USA!?
Rolos frames are as far as i know, made by Bike Ahead.
They also cost + 7500 Euro.
Just remember the interview with Lightweight, who mentioned a frameset like Urgestalt would cost beyond 12000 Euro.

[CAAD8FRED]

I'm also not following the commentary on Scott. Is it implied they're built by Giant, too?

Aluminium Scott's are made by Giant. I don't think the carbon ones are, but I'm not sure.

'Take Giant, for example. As well as making ultra-high-quality Giant-brand carbon frames in its two C-Tech composites factories – one in China, one in Taiwan – it makes for companies such as Scott, Colnago, and many others....'

'Cream factories include Topkey of Taiwan, which makes carbon frames for Specialized and Cannondale. It bills itself as the "largest carbon bike manufacturer in the world", with an annual production of 200,000 frames. It has been making carbon frames since 1994, and also makes most of the world's high-end carbon tennis racquets, a business it has been in since 1980. One of Topkey's subsidiaries is Keentech Composite Technology, which makes carbon frames in China for Cervélo. G&M Carbon Components makes for BMC. Pinarello frames are made by Carbotec Industrial of Taiwan and China, in the carbon business since 2004. Scott's cheesy but informative video was, in fact, shot in the Giant factory. China's Quest Composite Technology makes bike frames for Trek and Canyon.'

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/cream- ... -it/019441

Cannondale bikes say made in China, yet they are made in Taiwan. Looks like Cannondale has a one China policy.

[GothicCastle]

Question is what the frames/ bikes would cost if manufactured in EU and/ or USA!?
Rolos frames are as far as i know, made by Bike Ahead.
They also cost + 7500 Euro.
Just remember the interview with Lightweight, who mentioned a frameset like Urgestalt would cost beyond 12000 Euro.

Allied is making frames in the US and has them priced ~$3000.

[kgt]

And 100% made in France TIME frames cost 2500-4500 euros.

[robeambro]

Guys, I think you are missing a point. Well, a few.

Firstly, a frame nowadays is not just a commodity where the great majority of the total cost of the item is direct (ie. production costs, materials, working hours, etc).
For a frame made by Trek or Canyon (for the sake of mentioning two), a lot of the costs are indirect (R&D, engineering, and the likes). The costs as described above are still important, but they aren't the only relevant ones.

Allied and TIME (again, for the sake of mentioning two) don't have the same amount of indirect costs going beyond the production of their frames. Hence, they must mostly worry about covering the production costs. To put it very simplisticly, once they cover those with a certain threshold markup, they know that the remaining costs won't be too bad and they will make a profit in the end.

This helps to explain why a "100% made in France" frame may be cheaper than others made in Asia.

Further, for companies like Allied and TIME, it may even be uneconomical to move their production facilities to Asia (heavy investments required) or to use contractors (which would likely charge them a much higher price to build frames than they would to Trek and Canyon, due to much smaller volumes).

[kgt]

For a frame made by Trek or Canyon (for the sake of mentioning two), a lot of the costs are indirect (R&D, engineering, and the likes).

Add marketing. The amounts spent there are considerable. In fact a part of R&D and engineering is always related to marketing.
And in the case of Canyon I do not see any special engineering or R&D.

[robeambro]

For a frame made by Trek or Canyon (for the sake of mentioning two), a lot of the costs are indirect (R&D, engineering, and the likes).

Add marketing. The amounts spent there are considerable. In fact a part of R&D and engineering is always related to marketing.
And in the case of Canyon I do not see any special engineering or R&D.

What do you mean "you don't see it"?

Aside from Trek's IsoSpeed, I find it very difficult to find ANY road bikes where you can "see" any special engineering or R&D. They all have some slightly different shaping and will tell you that their research has found out that blah blah.

To go back to the original question, what is that "you don't see"?

That being said, I'm sure Trek spends 100x times what Canyon does in R&D. I just don't enjoy reading negative comments without substantiation.

[hannawald]

Canyon consistently makes one of the best reviewed bikes on the market. So you say it is just a coincidence and they don´t have any research? I don´t think so. Their Ultimate SLX Disc frame is 820g (size M! for up to 184cm) and fork 320g, maintaining stiffness and comfort. Many competitors fail to achieve this or just in the latest iteration, while Ultimate Disc is already 2 or 3 years on market, one of the first bikes to market with enough clearance, focus on aero shapes in this category, VCLS seatpost, lower positioned internal seat clamp to increase seatpost flex etc... the same with Aeroad, it is probably 4-5 years on market and still among best and lightest..they have originally shaped cyclocross bikes, unique (strange) gravel handlebar..I can see many ideas.

[euan]

Canyon also does more than anyone else to ensure quality control.

[cro2]

And in the case of Canyon I do not see any special engineering or R&D.

Technically it's possible for a monkey to press keys randomly on a keybord and write an essay on quantum physics, but that's very unlikely. The fact is that Canyon bikes are superbly built, comfortable and ride very sharp. As others already mentioned, it also scores very well in third-party tests. And having a direct comparison between Canyon Aeroad SLX to a Scott Foil 20, I like Canyon much more.

[robertbb]

I've got two Canyons and have ridden and sold another. Currently own a Ultimate CF SLX rim and Ultimate AL SLX rim. Previously also had the lower SL model (different mould/carbon).

The quality of the Ultimate SLX is amazing. I stuck a little USB powered camera on a cable down all the tubes to inspect inside and the finish is super clean and consistent. These are made by Quest Composites, who also make some Trek models.

The quality of the SL was not as good. In fact, I returned one frame and got a replacement because the bottle cage nuts weren't straight on the downtube (cage when mounted was at a noticeable angle), and there was a thumbprint of black paint on the seat tube. As far as I can tell, these ones aren't made by Quest...

The AL SLX frame rides and handles very nicely, but is heavier and the welds far less clean than for example a Trek Emonda ALR, a Specialized Allez Smartweld, etc.

[kgt]

There is a hype around Canyons lately, sure. I still cannot see any special technology behind them. A top Fuji or a top Rose or a top Bottechia or a top Sarto or... can be as light, stiff, comfortable etc. but very few to nobody talk or write about them. There is no magic behind bike frames. The technology is pretty basic. That's why big brands promote aero performance and/or component integration. Otherwise there is nothing new really to offer in terms of technology.

[MattMay]

You might look to the mountain bike world where things are changing rapidly. Geometries, suspension. Far more variation. Canyon is ridden at the top of the World Cup xc circuit by Mathieu Van der Poel, and I for one am on the waiting list for that bike, the Lux. Complete redesign from last year...’18 and new ‘19 look nothing alike.

[Noctiluxx]

For a frame made by Trek or Canyon (for the sake of mentioning two), a lot of the costs are indirect (R&D, engineering, and the likes).

Add marketing. The amounts spent there are considerable. In fact a part of R&D and engineering is always related to marketing.
And in the case of Canyon I do not see any special engineering or R&D.

What do you mean "you don't see it"?

Aside from Trek's IsoSpeed, I find it very difficult to find ANY road bikes where you can "see" any special engineering or R&D. They all have some slightly different shaping and will tell you that their research has found out that blah blah.

To go back to the original question, what is that "you don't see"?

That being said, I'm sure Trek spends 100x times what Canyon does in R&D. I just don't enjoy reading negative comments without substantiation.

So you don't like reading negative comments without substantiation but ok with throwing out unsubstantiated claim of Trek spending 100x Canyon in R&D?