Who produces Canyon frames?

[robeambro]

For a frame made by Trek or Canyon (for the sake of mentioning two), a lot of the costs are indirect (R&D, engineering, and the likes).

Add marketing. The amounts spent there are considerable. In fact a part of R&D and engineering is always related to marketing.
And in the case of Canyon I do not see any special engineering or R&D.

What do you mean "you don't see it"?

Aside from Trek's IsoSpeed, I find it very difficult to find ANY road bikes where you can "see" any special engineering or R&D. They all have some slightly different shaping and will tell you that their research has found out that blah blah.

To go back to the original question, what is that "you don't see"?

That being said, I'm sure Trek spends 100x times what Canyon does in R&D. I just don't enjoy reading negative comments without substantiation.

So you don't like reading negative comments without substantiation but ok with throwing out unsubstantiated claim of Trek spending 100x Canyon in R&D?

How is that a negative claim? If anything it was meant as a praise to Trek. Oh and the "100x" is clearly a hyperbole, you can look it up.
If you want to flame, I'm sure there's plenty of other discussions.

[WorkonSunday]

seems abit silly to think a company as big as Canyon will only use a single sub-contractor for their frames across all different grades and sizes... i mean, you dont question when they provide SRAM kitted or Shimano kitted bike, right? That's two sub-contractors right there.

and of course, would you rather have an Italian guy living in Taiwan building your bike or a chinese guy living in Italy doing the same? surely it's the final product that speaks for itself.

EDIT: in regards to marketing, engineering and R&D. Canyon pays pretty dollar to sponsor pro team who is also their testers, i dont think you say this is a pure marketing or R&D exercise, it's a mixture of the two.

[hambini]

Rather than do a post based on hear say. I thought I would chirp in based on measurements I have taken

For manufacturing tolerances, the grid looks like this

1. Time/Look (Best by a long way)

2. Hongfu/Dengfu etc (best value for money)

3. Specialized, Cervelo, Scott, BMC, Canyon. (most of these brands are okay but odd bad one)

4. Cannondale, Boardman (avoid)

Trek is probably 3.5, I haven't had enough to measure but they are generally rubbish.

The big unkown that most people don't even measure or look at is the accuracy of the frame. The distance beween the BB, drop outs, head tube, seat tube etc is not that critical, it can vary by about a mm here or there without too much trouble. Of more concern is the misalignment (parallel and angular) as it can cause erratic handling.

For a mere mortal, the difference between a Hongfu aero frame and a Cervelo S5 is not going to be very much but the price delta can be significant. However more of a PITA is if your frame creaks or your headset keeps coming loose.

When I started out with my YouTube channel, bike suppliers used to regularly send me letters from lawyers, I used to reply with a dossier full of measurements against serial numbers and a polite letter saying if they wanted to see me in court then be my guest - not one of them took it any further. As time has progressed some of these manufacturers use my bottom brackets to fix warranty claims and other's use me for aerodynamic "help".

If you want a decent frame. I would by a Look or a Time.

Hambini

[Squashednuts]

Rather than do a post based on hear say. I thought I would chirp in based on measurements I have taken

For manufacturing tolerances, the grid looks like this

1. Time/Look (Best by a long way)

2. Hongfu/Dengfu etc (best value for money)

3. Specialized, Cervelo, Scott, BMC, Canyon. (most of these brands are okay but odd bad one)

4. Cannondale, Boardman (avoid)

Trek is probably 3.5, I haven't had enough to measure but they are generally rubbish...

...If you want a decent frame. I would by a Look or a Time.

Hambini

Sorry that this is off topic....
How do you rate Focus Izalco frames?

[hambini]

Rather than do a post based on hear say. I thought I would chirp in based on measurements I have taken

For manufacturing tolerances, the grid looks like this

1. Time/Look (Best by a long way)

2. Hongfu/Dengfu etc (best value for money)

3. Specialized, Cervelo, Scott, BMC, Canyon. (most of these brands are okay but odd bad one)

4. Cannondale, Boardman (avoid)

Trek is probably 3.5, I haven't had enough to measure but they are generally rubbish...

...If you want a decent frame. I would by a Look or a Time.

Hambini

Sorry that this is off topic....
How do you rate Focus Izalco frames?

Around 3. At a guess I'd say all of these manufacturers were getting their frames produced by the same few subcontractors. It can vary but there are common "traits" which are manufacturing signatures and not design signatures.

Looking at bike frame manufacturing is like looking at someone's handwriting.

[cyclenutnz]

Thanks for that link jlok. Interesting that they also make Trek frames and Bontrager components. More interesting is the fact that they advertise it on their website!

There are treks in their images that are not made at Quest. Their marketing team may have been a bit enthusiastic with grabbing images.

[robertbb]

Hambini nails it - carbon manufacture in the bicycle industry is like looking at someone's handwriting. The best way of putting it. I use a USB powered endoscopy style camera to check inside every component I buy, frames, bars, seatposts... was inspired to do this after seeing a few Luescher Teknik videos on YouTube and seeing how utterly crap the finish can be across almost all brands regardless of price point.

I jut bought some Ritchey WCS Curve carbon handlebars (bought two sets) and internally they are both absolute garbage (though the WCS seatposts in the same series are beautiful, so go figure).

As I said earlier, Canyon's higher end stuff is made at Quest. The lower grade stuff is not, and I've seen first hand the quality differences.

I'm seriously almost over carbon bikes completely... custom Steel/Ti, or an advanced modern Alloy like the new Emonda ALR's are cheap, within spitting distance of carbon frames performance wise and are going to be way more consistently finished - what you see is what you get weld-wise and the tubes are going to be as clean inside as outside, without issues like resin pooling, voids, mixed fibres thrown in there, residuals from plastic bladders... etc.

[Stendhal]

You're all missing the obvious answer. Canyons are made by Canyon.

[flying]

I'm seriously almost over carbon bikes completely... custom Steel/Ti, or an advanced modern Alloy like the new Emonda ALR's are cheap, within spitting distance of carbon frames performance wise and are going to be way more consistently finished - what you see is what you get weld-wise and the tubes are going to be as clean inside as outside, without issues like resin pooling, voids, mixed fibres thrown in there, residuals from plastic bladders... etc.

I am already there

Once the majority went monocoque I just lost interest
Also what you say is true about welds & seeing what you have.

Funny too that given this topic is Canyon, I will also say Canyon Alum frames have the worst welds I have ever seen
Especially the seat cluster...looks like a 12 yr old metals class student did them

[robertbb]

I'm seriously almost over carbon bikes completely... custom Steel/Ti, or an advanced modern Alloy like the new Emonda ALR's are cheap, within spitting distance of carbon frames performance wise and are going to be way more consistently finished - what you see is what you get weld-wise and the tubes are going to be as clean inside as outside, without issues like resin pooling, voids, mixed fibres thrown in there, residuals from plastic bladders... etc.

I am already there

Once the majority went monocoque I just lost interest
Also what you say is true about welds & seeing what you have.

Funny too that given this topic is Canyon, I will also say Canyon Alum frames have the worst welds I have ever seen
Especially the seat cluster...looks like a 12 yr old metals class student did them

And yes, as an owner of an AL Ultimate SLX as well I can vouch the welds aren't the best out there. The bike itself rides very well though... but I am about to sell it and am looking to go to a 2019 Emonda AL rim brake.

[Beaver]

Just curious: Does anyone know, where Orbea frames are built?

[robeambro]

Just curious: Does anyone know, where Orbea frames are built?

I may be wrong, but as far as I know they build to order, therefore I reckon it's in-house.
Otherwise it would be nuts to have something produced in Asia, then shipped to the Basque country to be assembled, and finally shipped to the end consumer.

[Antoine]

maybe the high end Orbea but I don't think so.

[wheelbuilder]

Orbea produces no carbon any longer. Their paint facility and assembly is still in Spain, but the carbon frames are made somewhere else. Don't know by who or where, so I won't speculate.

[mpulsiv]

Rather than do a post based on hear say. I thought I would chirp in based on measurements I have taken

For manufacturing tolerances, the grid looks like this

1. Time/Look (Best by a long way)

2. Hongfu/Dengfu etc (best value for money)

3. Specialized, Cervelo, Scott, BMC, Canyon. (most of these brands are okay but odd bad one)

4. Cannondale, Boardman (avoid)

Trek is probably 3.5, I haven't had enough to measure but they are generally rubbish.

The big unkown that most people don't even measure or look at is the accuracy of the frame. The distance beween the BB, drop outs, head tube, seat tube etc is not that critical, it can vary by about a mm here or there without too much trouble. Of more concern is the misalignment (parallel and angular) as it can cause erratic handling.

For a mere mortal, the difference between a Hongfu aero frame and a Cervelo S5 is not going to be very much but the price delta can be significant. However more of a PITA is if your frame creaks or your headset keeps coming loose.

When I started out with my YouTube channel, bike suppliers used to regularly send me letters from lawyers, I used to reply with a dossier full of measurements against serial numbers and a polite letter saying if they wanted to see me in court then be my guest - not one of them took it any further. As time has progressed some of these manufacturers use my bottom brackets to fix warranty claims and other's use me for aerodynamic "help".

If you want a decent frame. I would by a Look or a Time.

Hambini

You list manufacturers in that order due to BB tolerances? Would this be still relevant with threaded BB?