SRAM Etap. Six months in, how you getting on?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Bassett
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:41 am

by Bassett

RD failed again so that will be me on my 3rd one in less than 6 months use (all wifli)😕 another trip to Merlin tomorrow to sort it .

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

Bassett wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:49 pm
RD failed again so that will be me on my 3rd one in less than 6 months use (all wifli)😕 another trip to Merlin tomorrow to sort it .
Has your faith in SRAM Etap been eroded by these continual issues? Is the rest of the group and its benefits - wireless and hood shape, perhaps - worth the trouble for you? I am not trying to be a jerk but I wonder how folks put up with these repeated failures and conclude that the performance of Etap otherwise must be fantastic. Is that the case for you?

by Weenie


spartan
Posts: 1169
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

the correct question is etap a failure. if it was reliable we would have seen cheaper force version out by now. sram has not released any new road products for how long ???
Current Rides:

2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

Skillgannon
Posts: 3604
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:17 am
Location: A bigger rock in the Pacific (AUS)

by Skillgannon

spartan wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:51 am
the correct question is etap a failure. if it was reliable we would have seen cheaper force version out by now. sram has not released any new road products for how long ???
Why would they release Force Etap at this point in the product lifecycle? It's hard to believe that sram isn't going to go to 12 speed with their next generation of products, so why launch Force Etap at this point, when it would be superseeded within what is likely to be a 12-24 month time frame?
This board would be a nicer place if everyone would take themselves less seriously.

I almost miss Mr Search...

Jugi
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

Skillgannon wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:04 am
Why would they release Force Etap at this point in the product lifecycle? It's hard to believe that sram isn't going to go to 12 speed with their next generation of products, so why launch Force Etap at this point, when it would be superseeded within what is likely to be a 12-24 month time frame?
Over on the MTB side the SRAM XX1 wasn’t too old when XX1 Eagle came around. I think as of right now, they have decent sales of 11spd and 12spd systems, no real threat of cannibalization of sales either way.

I think after eTap’s release a logical development step would have been to increase the number of gears. The system logic is ingenious, no real gains can be made at the groupset’s weight etc. I wouldn’t be too surprised if Red eTap 2gen goes 12spd, and then Force eTap would get an almost full trickle down of the 11spd eTap tech.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I think there are still grams to be saved, and it would mean Red/eTap moving up a rung on the ladder. Red/eTap become the SRAM equivalent of Super Record whole Force/Force eTap takes over the spots Red/eTap used to occupy. All of the above would be available as 2x12 and 1x12.

Apex and Rival both get quality bumps as well, but are available exclusively as 1x as a point of differentiation...with big cassettes and oval chainring options.

Bassett
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:41 am

by Bassett

BdaGhisallo wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:59 pm
Bassett wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:49 pm
RD failed again so that will be me on my 3rd one in less than 6 months use (all wifli)😕 another trip to Merlin tomorrow to sort it .
Has your faith in SRAM Etap been eroded by these continual issues? Is the rest of the group and its benefits - wireless and hood shape, perhaps - worth the trouble for you? I am not trying to be a jerk but I wonder how folks put up with these repeated failures and conclude that the performance of Etap otherwise must be fantastic. Is that the case for you?
I’m seriously thinking of selling it .
Had it 12 months in October but did not start using it till late March .
I have been lucky that none of the failures have happened during events .
I’m a sram mechanical fan , we have a 6 year old Apex and two Red mechanical sets and all have been rock solid but I can’t see me staying on Etap 😕

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2007
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Mine is too new to be able to tell. I guess i'll soon be swapping bikes over to my gravel.
That means Di2.
But for now, it works splendid.
I don't even use a chaincatcher and i don't need one.
I can easily do fast FD shifts without any problems (50/36 Sram Red 22 crankset BB386 version).
Start to wonder if those having FD issues uses the correct FD support adapter!?
RD also works great, Wifli RD with 11-28 cassette (Shimano DA 9000 + 6800)

BTW, supershort chainstays, 403mm (Ax Lightness Vial EVO D)
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO D
Paduano Racing Fidia
Open *UP*
https://opencycle.com/showcase/the-xplo ... eelsonfire

petromyzon
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

spartan wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:51 am
the correct question is etap a failure. if it was reliable we would have seen cheaper force version out by now. sram has not released any new road products for how long ???
The issue with Force Etap was discussed by James Huang and Caley Fretz in a podcast.
The cost of electronic groupsets is rather high and related to the electronic components and the R+D. There is no sensible way to reduce these costs when designing a lower tier groupset and customers will still expect the same basic shifting performance. In fact it is cheapest just to re-package the Red level electronics in Force clothing.
However, if the difference between the two cable groups is minor at best, the difference between the two electronic ones will be even less and they might even end up making design decisions to deliberately make Force Etap less attractive rather than selling the best groupset they can for the price.

I'm not sure how Shimano can manage the same trick but I do think that Ultegra Di2 is extremely good value compared to the other groups.

Until the guts of Etap and Di2 become very widely used and much cheaper than they are currently electronic shifting is set to stay as a premium offering.

As for SRAM, despite the issues on this thread Etap is still a good product due to the ease of installation and clean look and is popular in the custom bike market.

They have establised XD freehubs in the MTB space but not in the road community. Without knowing what Shimano's next move in terms of freehub standards is they may find it hard to release their next product with a coherent strategy, 12 speed or not.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 1774
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

petromyzon wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:24 am

The issue with Force Etap was discussed by James Huang and Caley Fretz in a podcast.
The cost of electronic groupsets is rather high and related to the electronic components and the R+D. There is no sensible way to reduce these costs when designing a lower tier groupset and customers will still expect the same basic shifting performance. In fact it is cheapest just to re-package the Red level electronics in Force clothing.
However, if the difference between the two cable groups is minor at best, the difference between the two electronic ones will be even less and they might even end up making design decisions to deliberately make Force Etap less attractive rather than selling the best groupset they can for the price.

I'm not sure how Shimano can manage the same trick but I do think that Ultegra Di2 is extremely good value compared to the other groups.

Until the guts of Etap and Di2 become very widely used and much cheaper than they are currently electronic shifting is set to stay as a premium offering.

As for SRAM, despite the issues on this thread Etap is still a good product due to the ease of installation and clean look and is popular in the custom bike market.

They have establised XD freehubs in the MTB space but not in the road community. Without knowing what Shimano's next move in terms of freehub standards is they may find it hard to release their next product with a coherent strategy, 12 speed or not.

There is some overlap with my explanation of how SRAM can make room for Force eTap and your (CT podcast’s) observation. We both think Force eTap would mostly just be a rebadge of the current level of Red eTap. The way to enable this is, again, to make Red eTap higher end. More carbon, less weight, a full carbon crankset, 4-piston disc calipers, etc.

Shimano has already revealed its 12-Speed MicroSpline freehub. Nothing is stopping them from using both MicroSpline and their existing HG freehub body design for road 12-speed. In addition SRAM already has specs for XDr freehubs, which as you may have guessed is just XD, but 1.8mm wider.

check6
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:27 am

by check6

Man, I probably just ruined things for myself looking in on this thread. I have two bikes each with eTap with thousands of flawless miles. My second bike had Ultegra Di2 (which was also flawless) and I switched it over to eTap because I liked the one paddle per lever method. Couldn't be happier with my experience.

petromyzon
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

I had forgotten about XDr. I still don't think XD or XDr will be a significant part of the market for a while (maybe not ever if MicroSpline becomes the standard).
The issue for SRAM is still that they would want to ensure compatibility with Shimano for 12 speed road.
Hopefully both companies can make 12 speed cassettes that fit on 11 speed hyperglide bodies so people can use legacy wheels. There should be space to "overhang" a 30 tooth sprocket at the spoke end.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Still dont know why Sram didnt drop a 10-34/36 XDr casette, makes a lot of sense for 1xRoad
Using Tapatalk

Bassett
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:41 am

by Bassett

Update
I decided to give it one more go before selling the lot with the 3rd new rear mech and ....... it all works spot on 👍🙃 indexes correctly and not just on the HG800 cassette .
I think clearly there is some issues with the earlier mechs as I have done nothing different on the set up so if you can’t make it index correctly like my first two don’t suffer like I did just check everything then return it.
I’m very happy to now have a working setup.

by Weenie


ancker
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:29 pm

by ancker

I have three (almost) sets of eTap. All work flawlessly. I have the small issue of my drive side crank arm hitting the limit screw on the Cannondale, but I believe this is more of a crank spacer issue as I'm currently using a BB30/GXP adapter, which will get swapped out with a proper BB this afternoon.

Full Group: Specialized Allez Sprint (Very early group, like as soon as it was available)
Full Group (WiFli RD): Cannondale SS Evo (Purchased late fall 2017)
1x Group (WiFli RD): Carbonda CFR505 Gravel/CX Bike (New RD 2018, used Shifters (unknown year))

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