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Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:25 pm
by mile2424
thumper88 wrote:
topflightpro wrote:Specialized is claiming the disc version is no more than 4 seconds slower over 40k. And the frame weights 100g less than the rim brake version - I assume some of those 100 grams include the rim brakes.

Still, it's a pretty heavy bike, with the S-Works coming in 17.1 pounds with Di2 and Quarq.

http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/rev ... icycling__



One of the reviews says Specialized engineers claim the disc bike can be built up at 15.4 lbs... I'd like to know the build details on that.
That unlabelled chart of the aero comparison is like something Trump would use to sell condos.
And let’s explore pricing. To keep it simple, just the S-Works frameset at $4,200 vs the rim-brake “module” at $6,200.
How in hell is a set of bars, a stem (no matter how fancy) and pair of brake calipers (calipers that are known to be substandard, even with the new fixes) worth $2,000?
I know there are tweaks to the rim brake frame and more carbon in it, about $40 worth plus some labor. But still.
And better yet, let’s compare the disc brake frame at $4,200 to the first generation S-works frameset they are still selling apparently at a profit for $2,000 retail.
So it costs like, $2,200 to add disc mounts and thru-axles to a frame that otherwise is essentially constructed the same?
The products are good, the engineering is good, but Specialized’s marketing is a hype machine and its pricing is extortionate. Company is run like a freaking pirate ship.
The frame is worth about $2,500, the bars $275, the stem, I dunno $140.


Yeah I would be interested in hearing how they can be built up to be 15.4 lbs.

With that being said on the rim brake version, I have wondered why they couldn't make the brake fairings out of carbon to save weight, as well as the stem. I know some people prefer aluminum stems for the stiffness, but curious how much weight both of those in carbon could have saved.

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:25 pm
by Weenie

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:35 pm
by prebsy
Spec seems to drop the price on new tech as it ages, look at the msrp for the original Venge over the years as an example. I wonder if 15.4lbs is using mech disc brakes and sram red / etap

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:49 pm
by Calnago
topflightpro wrote:Specialized is claiming the disc version is no more than 4 seconds slower over 40k. And the frame weights 100g less than the rim brake version - I assume some of those 100 grams include the rim brakes.

Still, it's a pretty heavy bike, with the S-Works coming in 17.1 pounds with Di2 and Quarq.

http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/rev ... icycling__

This is so typical, and completely expected. I'm so tired of hearing how marginal gains are so so important, and every millisecond they can squeeze out translates to a millisecond at the line... blah blah blah. Yet, as soon as something they produce goes the other way, they describe it as "no more than 4 seconds slower" essentially trying to make you believe that 4 seconds is nothing. And I agree, it isn't. But if they're going to have you believe that a 4 second time difference is huge if its saved, then they can't be implying it's hardly anything when it's added back on, which is exactly what they're trying to do. It's quite laughable. Yet, people, especially those new to cycling just seem to suck it up without question. Just my observation. The whole Venge Vias thing has been a debacle from the beginning. And it doesn't seem to be getting better.

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:09 pm
by prebsy
A four second slower vias is still a very fast bike. A disc vias is still as aero as an S5 or Madone 9, and now cheaper. This seems like an easy decision to me.

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Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:10 am
by jeffy
Nefarious86 wrote:Why? Plenty of hub options and a decent chainline solution for short stays....


well for one, you can't use your wheelsets (rear wheels if you don't mind non match matchy) with any other bike.

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:55 pm
by kgt
Calnago wrote:This is so typical, and completely expected. I'm so tired of hearing how marginal gains are so so important, and every millisecond they can squeeze out translates to a millisecond at the line... blah blah blah. Yet, as soon as something they produce goes the other way, they describe it as "no more than 4 seconds slower" essentially trying to make you believe that 4 seconds is nothing.

+1 but you see there are already people that beliveve all Specialized's claims.

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:18 pm
by bikemaniack
They can't say: New Vias is 5 seconds slower then previous model...but it has disc brakes:)

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:31 pm
by spdntrxi
bikemaniack wrote:They can't say: New Vias is 5 seconds slower then previous model...but it has disc brakes:)

They did say that ?

But also stated it's essentially the same ..

The push for disk bikes will be braking modulation and that you can make up the lost time by braking later in turns on descents .. See cannondales ads for Evo disk


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Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:42 am
by Bjobjo
Looks like there will be an even more expensive model. Hope they shave off a lot of wheight and dont just improve stiffness.

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:51 am
by lovemyway
Bjobjo wrote:Looks like there will be an even more expensive model. Hope they shave off a lot of wheight and dont just improve stiffness.


Isn't it going to be a tarmac with thru-axles?

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:53 am
by Bjobjo
If that would be true I would definately buy one. The scs shit really put me of. To me disc bikes (road or mtb) need thru axles. I just wonder why nobody uses tune's qc12. It was exclusive for haibike in 2016 but now everybody can use it. And it is a lot faster than even quick releases

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:54 pm
by bikemaniack
Maybe it will be Vias McLaren Disc

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:43 pm
by mile2424
I'd love to see a McLaren version, but 99% sure it's the new Roubaix

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:22 pm
by ProfessorChaos
My guess is the weight of 15.4lbs was with Tubulars. I had my rim ViAS close to that with old pre-FC404 tubies. Once upon a time I had a Cervelo S2 with the same wheels built down to 12.9lbs, and I can honestly say I have no intention of going back. The stiffness, and subsequent cornering confidence is much improved. Higher average speeds are attained all the time as well. I've always been on board with the aero science. While disc brakes will benefit some riders in some situations. I'm fine with sticking to the rim version.

Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:28 am
by mpulsiv
Is there a reason Vias comes with thru-axle and every single single Tarmac from 2017 models comes with QR? Not to mention none of them have new RS505 or RS805 flat mount?!


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Re: Venge Vias Disk is here....

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:28 am
by Weenie