Chain lubricants

[TobinHatesYou]

Newsflash. It's not that simple. Sound can be amplified and damped. Sometimes amplification is passive. Sometimes damping takes additional energy.

Newsflash. It is that simple. Noise where there wasn't previously noise means power is being wasted. Why are people so uptight around here?

What takes more energy playing a muted trombone at 100dBa or an unmuted trombone at 105dBa?

Or how about this. What if I scream as loud as I can 3 meters under water in a pool, but talk at a normal volume 3 meters away on dry land? Which is louder to the observer?

[C36]

Newsflash. It's not that simple. Sound can be amplified and damped. Sometimes amplification is passive. Sometimes damping takes additional energy.

Newsflash. It is that simple. Noise where there wasn't previously noise means power is being wasted. Why are people so uptight around here?

Noise come from a vibration if it rings (noise) or if it’s damped (no noise) you are dissipating it differently, then consumes energy.

If you had a system that was not vibrating and then vibrates you could now be consuming more energy.

[B R H]

Newsflash. It's not that simple. Sound can be amplified and damped. Sometimes amplification is passive. Sometimes damping takes additional energy.

Newsflash. It is that simple. Noise where there wasn't previously noise means power is being wasted. Why are people so uptight around here?

What takes more energy playing a muted trombone at 100dBa or an unmuted trombone at 105dBa?

Or how about this. What if I scream as loud as I can 3 meters under water in a pool, but talk at a normal volume 3 meters away on dry land? Which is louder to the observer?

Your questions are irrelevant to the scenario where a chain that was quiet becomes noisy. The only power input to the system is from the rider so an increase in noise means power from the rider is now being used to make noise not forward motion of the bicycle. Nothing else in the system is changing.

[TobinHatesYou]

Your questions are irrelevant to the scenario where a chain that was quiet becomes noisy. Do you agree or disagree that a chain that was quiet and is now noisy is wasting more energy?

An unlubed chain is quite noisy.
A chain covered in sticky, viscous goo is not noisy and inefficient.
A chain covered in light, lubricious solids is noisy and efficient.

Thick fluids effectively insulate the sound from the observer. They do not prevent the release of energy that creates the sound. A thick layer of lube/wax covering the external surfaces of a chain will minimize rasping noises, but that thick layer of lube/wax is actually contributing nothing to your drivetrain efficiency.

Only one noise really needs to be avoided, and that's squeaking.

[usr]

Your questions are irrelevant to the scenario where a chain that was quiet becomes noisy. The only power input to the system is from the rider so an increase in noise means power from the rider is now being used to make noise not forward motion of the bicycle. Nothing else in the system is changing.

There are more ways to lose power than conversion to noise. A change that makes more power divert into audible air movement can certainly at the same time make less power divert into other inaudible sinks. The only power input is the rider, true, but forward motion and audible noise are not the only power outputs.

[BigBoyND]

Your questions are irrelevant to the scenario where a chain that was quiet becomes noisy. The only power input to the system is from the rider so an increase in noise means power from the rider is now being used to make noise not forward motion of the bicycle. Nothing else in the system is changing.

Right after application when there is excess lube or wax, it's the quietest. As the extra flakes or comes off, the chain starts getting louder but not slower (for a while)

[rudye9mr]

Thick wax can be a PiTA to clean from smaller jockey wheels etc.

Hot water helps but the silica super secret seems to be a goldilocks for now for my current conditions..hot and dry

[B R H]

Your questions are irrelevant to the scenario where a chain that was quiet becomes noisy. Do you agree or disagree that a chain that was quiet and is now noisy is wasting more energy?

An unlubed chain is quite noisy.
A chain covered in sticky, viscous goo is not noisy and inefficient.
A chain covered in light, lubricious solids is noisy and efficient.

Thick fluids effectively insulate the sound from the observer. They do not prevent the release of energy that creates the sound. A thick layer of lube/wax covering the external surfaces of a chain will minimize rasping noises, but that thick layer of lube/wax is actually contributing nothing to your drivetrain efficiency.

Only one noise really needs to be avoided, and that's squeaking.

All true but funny you seem unable to acknowledge that my point was also true.

[B R H]

Thick wax can be a PiTA to clean from smaller jockey wheels etc.

Hot water helps but the silica super secret seems to be a goldilocks for now for my current conditions..hot and dry

I found SSS didn’t solidify enough to avoid picking up lots of sand. It also pushed out of the chain easily and therefore didn’t last as long as Muc-Off Ceramic Dry. SSS does feel faster for the first few miles though.

[B R H]

The only power input is the rider, true, but forward motion and audible noise are not the only power outputs.

Yes, of course.

[C36]

I found SSS didn’t solidify enough to avoid picking up lots of sand. It also pushed out of the chain easily and therefore didn’t last as long as Muc-Off Ceramic Dry. SSS does feel faster for the first few miles though.

Did you respect curing times? Or running in particular poor conditions?
I just swapped chains and running the chain links through my fingers, I could not feel any sand dust in the links or under the rollers. Chain had 1000+ km since last maintenance, first 550 with Silca wax (lasted surprisingly longer than previously), then recharged twice with SSS.

[Kurt1980]

On a related note, I just replaced my old chain with which I used Squirt with a new chain, using Tru Tension Banana slip lube.

Amazing how much friction there was in the old chain.

Granted, it was at the end of its life, so the wear may have added friction to the articulation. But the lighter lube spins so much freer. We'll see how we go over the coming months.

[Hexsense]

Your questions are irrelevant to the scenario where a chain that was quiet becomes noisy. Do you agree or disagree that a chain that was quiet and is now noisy is wasting more energy?

An unlubed chain is quite noisy.
A chain covered in sticky, viscous goo is not noisy and inefficient.
A chain covered in light, lubricious solids is noisy and efficient.

Thick fluids effectively insulate the sound from the observer. They do not prevent the release of energy that creates the sound. A thick layer of lube/wax covering the external surfaces of a chain will minimize rasping noises, but that thick layer of lube/wax is actually contributing nothing to your drivetrain efficiency.

Only one noise really needs to be avoided, and that's squeaking.

All true but funny you seem unable to acknowledge that my point was also true.

We don't acknowledge it because it's a simplified statement with big hole in its integrity.

Melt wax is quietest on the first miles.
Then it gets noisier, BUT IT KEEP GETTING FASTER as the excess wax shred off.
So, the noise wasn't there. Then the noise come, yet it become faster. This hold for about 60 miles. Then friction stay steady until about 150 miles or so, when it get even louder but gets slower instead of faster.

So, your statement wasn't true on the first 60 mile, then true later on. All on the same chain and lube setup.
Since it's only true like half the time. Why do we generalize it that way?

[Mocs123]

On a related note, I just replaced my old chain with which I used Squirt with a new chain, using Tru Tension Banana slip lube.

Amazing how much friction there was in the old chain.

Granted, it was at the end of its life, so the wear may have added friction to the articulation. But the lighter lube spins so much freer. We'll see how we go over the coming months.

I'm interested to see how you like the Tru Tension Banana slip lube. It looks like another wax based drip lube and I'd love a really good efficient and quiet drip based wax lube. Currently I'm trying SSS drip on one of my bikes and I really like it in some ways, but it seems to get loud quickly.

[AW84]

Recently tried Silca wax and will never go back. In hindsight, I feel like an idiot for spending a whole decade riding with absolutely filthy drivetrains and getting greasy prints everwhere during maintenance. I found a home-brew recipe online that's apparently popular with triathletes, and came to find that a small company makes said home-brew and sells it cheaper than I can bother to make it myself, so going to give that a try and will report back.