Chain lubricants
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Smoove is the cleanest wax based lube I've tried and lasts long even after wet rides.
I'm going to try Smoove next. Been using Squirt for a couple of years, it makes my drivetrain so quiet which is good, but the chain does get a little dirty after a while. Tried Squirt on the indoor trainer bike once, never again as the stuff does fly off the chain.
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Folks, Smoove and Squirt are last generation products, and I am not sure why we are still talking about them. They are good, but there are newer and better alternatives that do not produce any gunk on the chain or the pulley wheels and have better penetration capability at room temps (or below). E.g., the CSUFO Drip (the new one) or Tru-Tension banana slip are excellent in this regard - both superior to Smoove/Squirt in my experience, with no downsides.
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Downside for some (maybe not for you): price.aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:05 pmFolks, Smoove and Squirt are last generation products, and I am not sure why we are still talking about them. They are good, but there are newer and better alternatives that do not produce any gunk on the chain or the pulley wheels and have better penetration capability at room temps (or below). E.g., the CSUFO Drip (the new one) or Tru-Tension banana slip are excellent in this regard - both superior to Smoove/Squirt in my experience, with no downsides.
Example at bike-components.de:
Squirt Lube 120ml priced at 10,83€/100 ml .
CeramicSpeed UFO Drip 180 ml priced at 19,99€/100 ml .
So almost double the price for the CeramicSpeed wax.
Since you seem to have tried both Squirt and CeramicSpeed UFO.
Would you say that the Ceramic Speed UFO drip also lasts longer than Squirt Lube?
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I tried UFO drip, Squirt, Smoove, Silca Supersecret lube. UFO drip doesn't last as long as Squirt and Smoove. However, it shred itself cleanly which is good for dusty condition. Never have to clean the gunk.
For some reason, Silca Supersecret lube doesn't dry and shred as clean as UFO Drip despite most other report say they are comparable.
For me, UFO Drip win this fight of wax drip to top of my (Silca Hot Melt) melt waxed chain.
For some reason, Silca Supersecret lube doesn't dry and shred as clean as UFO Drip despite most other report say they are comparable.
For me, UFO Drip win this fight of wax drip to top of my (Silca Hot Melt) melt waxed chain.
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justRideIt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:38 pm
Would you say that the Ceramic Speed UFO drip also lasts longer than Squirt Lube?
Your chain will probably last longer since it doesn't have penetration issues and doesn't gunk up as much. Also cleaning does have a time component. How much that is worth to you in dollars is up to you. UFO Drip is definitely the cleanest running of the new generation. It behaves the most like hot-melt wax once dry.
Smoove may be last generation, but it is probably one of the better wax drip options in occasionally wet conditions. I would not make a habit of using wax-based lube for wet riding though. Something like Synergetic will be way better at warding off surface rust.
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That's good feedback. I have really liked my pre-waxed chain from Silca on my gravel bike and have been maintaining with the Silca Super Secret and recently did the full Silca Secret Blend rewax. Was going to stick with Silca for my gravel bikes and UFO for my road bikes, but may try topping off the Silca Secret Blend waxed chains with the UFO. On the road bikes, am going to try doing a deep clean on the chains, apply the UFO, and periodically clean the chains going forward with the UFO Clean, which I have not used before.Hexsense wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:11 pmI tried UFO drip, Squirt, Smoove, Silca Supersecret lube. UFO drip doesn't last as long as Squirt and Smoove. However, it shred itself cleanly which is good for dusty condition. Never have to clean the gunk.
For some reason, Silca Supersecret lube doesn't dry and shred as clean as UFO Drip despite most other report say they are comparable.
For me, UFO Drip win this fight of wax drip to top of my (Silca Hot Melt) melt waxed chain.
My experience with Smoove was not positive-chain seemed really sticky after I reapplied, but that could easily be chalked up to my cleaning or application practices. Also previously used Squirt, which was better for me than Smoove, but neither seem to work as well and easily as the Silca combo for me.
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On the cost side, the only thing I'll say is that even at double the cost, the long term cost of something like UFO drip is trivial. That 180ml bottle is probably enough for 2 years. As far as bike consummables go, this is nothing.
Smoove/squirt are fine. But I used to apply them to a heated chain and also after heating up the lubricant in hot water bath. It was much more time consuming. Nowadays, I wax chains maybe every month (c. 1200km), and use UFO drip in between, perahaps once a week, give or take. Applying UFO drip is a matter of 30 seconds vs half an hour of faff with Smoove. To me that more than justifies the difference in price. In the meantime, I have 3 KMC X-11 SL chains that I swap around and they have collectively endured more than 25,000 kms over 2 years, and still have not worn out even to a 0.5% mark on the chain checker tool. I expect to comfortably exceed 10,000km per chain. Smoove gets you half as far, at best.
As for wet weather performance - yes, wax and wax based lubes are not great. You pretty much have to clean and re-wax the chain after a wet ride. Maybe Synergetic is better, but I sort of hesitate to go there becuase you cannot combine wet lube and wax - so you either go all-in and switch to Synergetic (which I am not willing to do), or have a separate chain lubed with Synergetic that you put on when you expect to get rained on. Not sure if that is workable in practice.
I did, however, buy Absolute Black graphene lube, so will try that one out next. ZFC report on it is very encouraging, IMO, and I am very keen on a lube that lasts 1000km+ on an a single application.
Smoove/squirt are fine. But I used to apply them to a heated chain and also after heating up the lubricant in hot water bath. It was much more time consuming. Nowadays, I wax chains maybe every month (c. 1200km), and use UFO drip in between, perahaps once a week, give or take. Applying UFO drip is a matter of 30 seconds vs half an hour of faff with Smoove. To me that more than justifies the difference in price. In the meantime, I have 3 KMC X-11 SL chains that I swap around and they have collectively endured more than 25,000 kms over 2 years, and still have not worn out even to a 0.5% mark on the chain checker tool. I expect to comfortably exceed 10,000km per chain. Smoove gets you half as far, at best.
As for wet weather performance - yes, wax and wax based lubes are not great. You pretty much have to clean and re-wax the chain after a wet ride. Maybe Synergetic is better, but I sort of hesitate to go there becuase you cannot combine wet lube and wax - so you either go all-in and switch to Synergetic (which I am not willing to do), or have a separate chain lubed with Synergetic that you put on when you expect to get rained on. Not sure if that is workable in practice.
I did, however, buy Absolute Black graphene lube, so will try that one out next. ZFC report on it is very encouraging, IMO, and I am very keen on a lube that lasts 1000km+ on an a single application.
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Now I want to try UFO drip. $45 is nuts but let's see how well it performs.
Yeah I'd agree with all of this. I've moved from Squirt to Smoove to MSW and now use UFO drip to top up my waxed chains. Squirt was fine but required more regular top ups so the bottle only lasted half the time of UFO drip and washed away immediately in wet conditions. Smoove is better but a bit gunkier - much better in wet conditions though. UFO drip feels just like a freshly MSW waxed chain, so I use it to top up and prolong waxing cycles. I'm barely half way through a bottle after 14 months (1500km per month).aeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:57 pmOn the cost side, the only thing I'll say is that even at double the cost, the long term cost of something like UFO drip is trivial. That 180ml bottle is probably enough for 2 years. As far as bike consummables go, this is nothing.
Smoove/squirt are fine. But I used to apply them to a heated chain and also after heating up the lubricant in hot water bath. It was much more time consuming. Nowadays, I wax chains maybe every month (c. 1200km), and use UFO drip in between, perahaps once a week, give or take. Applying UFO drip is a matter of 30 seconds vs half an hour of faff with Smoove. To me that more than justifies the difference in price. In the meantime, I have 3 KMC X-11 SL chains that I swap around and they have collectively endured more than 25,000 kms over 2 years, and still have not worn out even to a 0.5% mark on the chain checker tool. I expect to comfortably exceed 10,000km per chain. Smoove gets you half as far, at best.
As for wet weather performance - yes, wax and wax based lubes are not great. You pretty much have to clean and re-wax the chain after a wet ride. Maybe Synergetic is better, but I sort of hesitate to go there becuase you cannot combine wet lube and wax - so you either go all-in and switch to Synergetic (which I am not willing to do), or have a separate chain lubed with Synergetic that you put on when you expect to get rained on. Not sure if that is workable in practice.
I did, however, buy Absolute Black graphene lube, so will try that one out next. ZFC report on it is very encouraging, IMO, and I am very keen on a lube that lasts 1000km+ on an a single application.
Tldr; It's worth the upfront cost.
For me and my radically non-obsessive approach to chain care, there's a bit of a hidden cost in there: with squirt I can basically apply whenever I feel like it, there's hardly any "too early" because earlier reapplication just shifts the noise/unsightlyness accumulation tradeoff a little (both of which I tend to consider "good enough" for a wide range of reapplication intervals). Cost doesn't factor in that much. But a lube that achieves similar best-case cost by lasting longer from a higher cost per application would change this quite a bit, suddenly I'd ask myself "is it already time or do I inflate lubrication cost more than necessary if I apply now". Still not much money in the grand scheme of cycling hobby expenses, but a bit of peace of mind lost.
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Whatever works for you, but your piece of mind is my lack thereof. I don't want to think about the "should I top up the lube" question or "is my chain in need of a bath" question; I want to just go and ride. Thinking about cost per application for something like UFO drip seems odd to me - it's literally pennies each time, despite the relatively high price tag of the whole bottle.usr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:50 pmFor me and my radically non-obsessive approach to chain care, there's a bit of a hidden cost in there: with squirt I can basically apply whenever I feel like it, there's hardly any "too early" because earlier reapplication just shifts the noise/unsightlyness accumulation tradeoff a little (both of which I tend to consider "good enough" for a wide range of reapplication intervals). Cost doesn't factor in that much. But a lube that achieves similar best-case cost by lasting longer from a higher cost per application would change this quite a bit, suddenly I'd ask myself "is it already time or do I inflate lubrication cost more than necessary if I apply now". Still not much money in the grand scheme of cycling hobby expenses, but a bit of peace of mind lost.
Btw, Tru-Tension Banana Slip is very similar to UFO in look, feel and subjective performance, incl. cleanliness on the chain. Smells like banana though and comes in a smaller and cheaper bottle, even if cost per ml is pretty much the same as UFO. So it might be a good way to dip your toes in the water, as it were.
I've been using the Tru-Tension Banana Slip as a half-way house before going all in on full dipped waxing and I've been very happy with the results, so much so I'm not sure I'll bother with waxingaeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:23 pmBtw, Tru-Tension Banana Slip is very similar to UFO in look, feel and subjective performance, incl. cleanliness on the chain. Smells like banana though and comes in a smaller and cheaper bottle, even if cost per ml is pretty much the same as UFO. So it might be a good way to dip your toes in the water, as it were.
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