Chain lubricants

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BBres
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:20 pm

by BBres

Roadbiker10 wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:42 pm

I am happy to try something new, like Squirt or Silca supersecret for example. Although, right now I see Sigmasports have Mucc off dry lube, C3 dry ceramic and hydrodynamic lube cheap. Are the latter two any good?
I've been using Muc-off dry lube C3 ceramic for about 1,5 month so far. I switched from Squirt which hadn't satisfied me.

At the moment I am happy with C3 - it is reasonably clean and quite (as opposed to Squirt). It is also not as sticky as Squirt. No lumps around jockey wheels. I wipe my chain with dry cloth after every ride. C3 is also much easier to clean with regular degreaser (Muc-off drivetrain cleaner in my case).

Yet, I cannot say anything about the durability of a chain with C3 lube. It's too early to judge.

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dialtone
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:31 am

by dialtone

I don't even care about the efficiency gain of wax. I stopped the oils because you can't touch the chain without making a mess. I just prefer not having to deal with dirty hands mid ride.

darrydonds
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:04 am

by darrydonds

dialtone wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:47 am
I don't even care about the efficiency gain of wax. I stopped the oils because you can't touch the chain without making a mess. I just prefer not having to deal with dirty hands mid ride.
Same here. Don't particularly care about the watts, nor the extra longevity of a waxed drivetrain (given the meager amount of power I generate :lol: ) I want a relatively clean chain and the peace of mind that I'm not operating dirty equipment.

warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

TobinHatesYou wrote:
warthog101 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:47 am
New chain- swish in a bath of mineral turpentine- swish in a bath of methylated spirits.
Hang to dry.

Viable if you’re swishing for a long-ass time.
I chuck it in a staminade container with a lid on it.
Not that long.
Works fine.
I cbfed using a wax bath.
Using smoove. Easy enough and the current chain has 10k km on it. About ready to change now.
That durability and amount of effort required suits me.

Roadbiker10
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:22 am

by Roadbiker10

Ok, thanks everyone for chiming in. I have until spring, when I start riding outside. I'll hold of on buying anymore oil lubes and see if I will try the wax with my indoor drivetrain first. How big does the ultrasonic cleaner have to be? There's a cheaper one that is 850ml. Is that too small? Or 2,5L?
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BBres
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:20 pm

by BBres

dialtone wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:47 am
I don't even care about the efficiency gain of wax. I stopped the oils because you can't touch the chain without making a mess. I just prefer not having to deal with dirty hands mid ride.
Actually Squirt is not particularly clean lube. I'd say it's a mediocre. IMO Muc-off C3 dry ceramic is better than Squirt in terms of cleannness. And it has different structure than oil lubes - is it easy to wipe off hands with a dry cloth or just water (that is why it is not efficient in wet conditions. In rain it gets washed out).

After cleaning my drivetrain and applying the C3 lube, it is almost completely clean and shining after 200 km. It gets dirty when you apply too much or just pour too much on the chain instead of dripping single drop on every roller as per instruction. Afterwards it is recommended to wipe excess.

Torbjorn
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:44 pm

by Torbjorn

Roadbiker10 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:45 am
Ok, thanks everyone for chiming in. I have until spring, when I start riding outside. I'll hold of on buying anymore oil lubes and see if I will try the wax with my indoor drivetrain first. How big does the ultrasonic cleaner have to be? There's a cheaper one that is 850ml. Is that too small? Or 2,5L?
You can buy an ultrasonic cleaner if you want to be really serious about getting your chain(s) ultra, ultra clean. They are not that expensive, either, I believe. But I just want to add that you don't HAVE to buy one, following a process with repeated vigorous shaking in first a degreaser of some sort, then acetone/isopropanol will get you 95% there. I have tried both, and I have to admit I can't tell the difference. After cleaning the chain manually, when I shake/rattle it gently (after having properly dried the chain), I hear the same metal-to-metal "clanking", signifying a very clean chain with no remaining oil or grease of any sort. People might disagree, but 1) if you use a drip-on wax-based lube (ie, no regular wax immersion needed), and 2) if you don't really ride in the wet all the time (which might necessitate taking the chain off the bike for super thorough cleaning - even though I doubt it), I think the only time you will need to go through the process discussed above is once - when the chain is new. And with these wax-based lubes comes much increased chain longevity, so this will be very rare. So everyone should weigh the pros against the cons before spending money on an ultrasonic cleaner.

Roadbiker10
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:22 am

by Roadbiker10

Torbjorn wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:14 pm
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:45 am
Ok, thanks everyone for chiming in. I have until spring, when I start riding outside. I'll hold of on buying anymore oil lubes and see if I will try the wax with my indoor drivetrain first. How big does the ultrasonic cleaner have to be? There's a cheaper one that is 850ml. Is that too small? Or 2,5L?
You can buy an ultrasonic cleaner if you want to be really serious about getting your chain(s) ultra, ultra clean. They are not that expensive, either, I believe. But I just want to add that you don't HAVE to buy one, following a process with repeated vigorous shaking in first a degreaser of some sort, then acetone/isopropanol will get you 95% there. I have tried both, and I have to admit I can't tell the difference. After cleaning the chain manually, when I shake/rattle it gently (after having properly dried the chain), I hear the same metal-to-metal "clanking", signifying a very clean chain with no remaining oil or grease of any sort. People might disagree, but 1) if you use a drip-on wax-based lube (ie, no regular wax immersion needed), and 2) if you don't really ride in the wet all the time (which might necessitate taking the chain off the bike for super thorough cleaning - even though I doubt it), I think the only time you will need to go through the process discussed above is once - when the chain is new. And with these wax-based lubes comes much increased chain longevity, so this will be very rare. So everyone should weigh the pros against the cons before spending money on an ultrasonic cleaner.
Yeah, I won't buy one right away anyway. I'll try the aforementioned method first. But when you put the wax on, are you saying I can go the whole season march to sep-oct, without cleaning the drivetrain? So when I'm washing the bike, what do I do to the drivetrain? Do I just wash it with soap or any bike cleaner like I would normally? From what I've read, you have to re do the waxing after washing. Sorry if it's a noob question. Maybe the point is to not wash the bike at all.

Is the wax more difficult to get of when washing compared to oil based? Or is it supposed to stay on? But I can't see how it would stay on after washing.

When they say like 300km something for the Silca drip wax. Do they mean just wiping of with a rag and reapplying every 300km or striping it again?

Also, I just got a cheap Trek Domane to use both on the trainer and do some occasional gravel since it has bigger clearance. From what I've read, wax is supposed to work well on gravel too.

I did actually buy a container of the C3 Ceramic lube, but I don't know if I will use it.
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Roadbiker10
Posts: 495
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by Roadbiker10

BBres wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:15 am
dialtone wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:47 am
I don't even care about the efficiency gain of wax. I stopped the oils because you can't touch the chain without making a mess. I just prefer not having to deal with dirty hands mid ride.
Actually Squirt is not particularly clean lube. I'd say it's a mediocre. IMO Muc-off C3 dry ceramic is better than Squirt in terms of cleannness. And it has different structure than oil lubes - is it easy to wipe off hands with a dry cloth or just water (that is why it is not efficient in wet conditions. In rain it gets washed out).

After cleaning my drivetrain and applying the C3 lube, it is almost completely clean and shining after 200 km. It gets dirty when you apply too much or just pour too much on the chain instead of dripping single drop on every roller as per instruction. Afterwards it is recommended to wipe excess.
That's what I have probably been doing wrong, I wipe down and reapply pretty much after every ride. That's why so much dirt builds up. I use the yellow Mucc off. So you actually don't wipe it down or even touch it for 200km? And then after 200km you wash it again or just wipe down and reapply?
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joshatsilca
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:52 pm

by joshatsilca

Screen Shot 2021-11-17 at 11.49.56 AM.png
I've posted the ZeroFriction Chart here before, but for reminders.. some of the lubes being discussed are pretty bad stuff!!
Also, to the question about SILCA drip wax, yes, wipe the chain and reapply every 200-300km or so and then clean the chain and start over every 1000-1200km

The ZFC data has the chain lubed every 300km without any cleaning/stripping during the test, so he's literally putting lube on a dirty chain during block 2, 4, and 6 to see what lubes can flush out or tolerate dirt the best.
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Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

That torture test seems very relevant to MTB, CX and Gravel.
No wonder what I like most right now is to start the chain with Silca Hot Melt.
Then top off with Ceramic Speed UFO Drip until it become very dirty and need hot water wash then redo hot melt again.

abonjour
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:03 pm

by abonjour

joshatsilca wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:50 pm
The ZFC data has the chain lubed every 300km without any cleaning/stripping during the test, so he's literally putting lube on a dirty chain during block 2, 4, and 6 to see what lubes can flush out or tolerate dirt the best.
I never realised that before, I assumed the chains were cleaned at the relube intervals. Continously relubing without any cleaning is madness no?

I used to use Muc Off C3 and I never understood how he managed to get such poor results with it, I never wore out a chain or cassette/rings in 5 years... I gave up tracking mileage! This was use in all weather, clean and relube 1x per couple of weeks unless I rode in the rain.

That all said, 99% sold on Silca Hot Melt, it's been awesome over the last year or so. Only the lack of rust protection that still bothers me with wax. I just can't stop my chains rusting, it's starting to end up being more care to avoid that than it's worth. Currently trying out Synergetic based on the ZFC results

BBres
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:20 pm

by BBres

Actually I wipe off my chain quite often - but I don’t reapply the lube every time I wipe my chain.

That is how the chain looks after making ca 100 km and first application after cleaning the whole bike.

Image

Image

Image

In this situation I’d only wipe the chain with a dry cloth.

After the next ride (50-100 km) I’d wipe the chain again and reapply the lube (a single drop on every roller) make a few spins and changes through all gears and then wipe the excess with a dry cloth.

Every 3-4 weeks I thoroughly clean the whole bike and drivetrain.

And btw. Is it possible to keep the chain clean for 1000 km? The dust sticks to the frame, wheels etc, so it will stick to the chain as well (apart from the residue from the friction of the chain parts).


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Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

I just use wind blower to remove all the water after I clean the bike to prevent rust.
A cheap $25 blower on Amazon to blow keyboard, computer dust is plenty strong enough to remove all water from the chain. Hopefully, not removing the wax too...

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

abonjour wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:05 pm
I used to use Muc Off C3 and I never understood how he managed to get such poor results with it, I never wore out a chain or cassette/rings in 5 years... I gave up tracking mileage! This was use in all weather, clean and relube 1x per couple of weeks unless I rode in the rain.s

He didn’t test C3 AFAIK. C3 is definitely one of the cleaner running non-wax drip lubes, but so is RnR Gold, which is proven to be an decent performer in terms of efficiency, but less so in longevity.

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