Chain lubricants

[MikeD]

I just bought some Molten Speed Wax; $20 a pound. Seems expensive for 8 chains that they say it will do. I'm looking to cut costs here. Gulf Wax at Walmart is really cheap, but I want to put some additive in it. My objective is not to lower friction (I could care less about that). I want cleanliness, max time between relubing, and quietness. I don't want to clean the chain between waxing (although a hot water wash would be OK). PTFE powder seems reasonable. MoS2 not so much because it's a dark color, not crazy about oil. WS2 maybe. I'm not keen on these powders though, as I don't want to breath them in while working with them. I think @Tobinhatesyou says the additives don't do anything and uses straight wax. Ozcycle says 10% PTFE. PTFE isn't cheap either.

[ryanw]

60degC is enough to melt paraffin wax?

Just barely. Melted food grade Gulf-brand wax starts to form a crust at around 58C. Penetration would normally be pretty poor, though I suppose an ultrasonic cleaner would help. Personally I heat the wax up to almost 95C.

60° on the machine is actually over 70°, so assume when it reaches 75° during the cycle, it's closer to 90°.

[MikeD]

60degC is enough to melt paraffin wax?

Just barely. Melted food grade Gulf-brand wax starts to form a crust at around 58C. Penetration would normally be pretty poor, though I suppose an ultrasonic cleaner would help. Personally I heat the wax up to almost 95C.

60° on the machine is actually over 70°, so assume when it reaches 75° during the cycle, it's closer to 90°.

What make/model ultrasonic cleaner is that?

[ryanw]

No brand, just off ebay. Have 3x 3L and one 15L.

[BdaGhisallo]

I just bought some Molten Speed Wax; $20 a pound. Seems expensive for 8 chains that they say it will do. I'm looking to cut costs here. Gulf Wax at Walmart is really cheap, but I want to put some additive in it. My objective is not to lower friction (I could care less about that). I want cleanliness, max time between relubing, and quietness. I don't want to clean the chain between waxing (although a hot water wash would be OK). PTFE powder seems reasonable. MoS2 not so much because it's a dark color, not crazy about oil. WS2 maybe. I'm not keen on these powders though, as I don't want to breath them in while working with them. I think @Tobinhatesyou says the additives don't do anything and uses straight wax. Ozcycle says 10% PTFE. PTFE isn't cheap either.

You'll get a lot more than eight chains done with one pound of MSW. I bought two pounds of MSW in mid 2019 and have been waxing three chains, using each for about 200 km before rewaxing, and I have about 3/4 lb left still.

[TobinHatesYou]

I just bought some Molten Speed Wax; $20 a pound. Seems expensive for 8 chains that they say it will do. I'm looking to cut costs here. Gulf Wax at Walmart is really cheap, but I want to put some additive in it. My objective is not to lower friction (I could care less about that). I want cleanliness, max time between relubing, and quietness. I don't want to clean the chain between waxing (although a hot water wash would be OK). PTFE powder seems reasonable. MoS2 not so much because it's a dark color, not crazy about oil. WS2 maybe. I'm not keen on these powders though, as I don't want to breath them in while working with them. I think @Tobinhatesyou says the additives don't do anything and uses straight wax. Ozcycle says 10% PTFE. PTFE isn't cheap either.

PTFE gives you a measurable efficiency gain with lab equipment, but it's <1W at 250W according to Friction Facts (among others.) Oz's 1:10 PTFE:wax ratio is completely nuts and I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt efficiency due to excessive clumping. I trust Jason Smith more than I trust Oz.

[MikeD]

I just bought some Molten Speed Wax; $20 a pound. Seems expensive for 8 chains that they say it will do. I'm looking to cut costs here. Gulf Wax at Walmart is really cheap, but I want to put some additive in it. My objective is not to lower friction (I could care less about that). I want cleanliness, max time between relubing, and quietness. I don't want to clean the chain between waxing (although a hot water wash would be OK). PTFE powder seems reasonable. MoS2 not so much because it's a dark color, not crazy about oil. WS2 maybe. I'm not keen on these powders though, as I don't want to breath them in while working with them. I think @Tobinhatesyou says the additives don't do anything and uses straight wax. Ozcycle says 10% PTFE. PTFE isn't cheap either.

PTFE gives you a measurable efficiency gain with lab equipment, but it's <1W at 250W according to Friction Facts (among others.) Oz's 1:10 PTFE:wax ratio is completely nuts and I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt efficiency due to excessive clumping. I trust Jason Smith more than I trust Oz.

I'm wondering if the additive will give the wax longer life between lubing and be quieter? You are using straight wax? You seem to have a handle on hot waxing with a minimum of effort. What is your technique and the equipment you use?

[Cubist]

As a long time MSW user I am in need of some advise for winter riding.

What is a good option with varying conditions? Is it wise to top up the chain after a wet ride with a drip lube like smoove?, or is it best to put boiling water on the chain and then re-wax?

The wax seems to stop working after 1,5 hour of riding in wet weather.

Anybody found the best method for winter riding?

Zero Friction says that you need to strip and re-wax after every wet ride.. if you're using MSW now, the ZFC data also show that Silca Hot Melt is ~2-5x better at reducing wear in the wet than MSW but in real life terms, you are still going to need to re-wax after a wet ride. For dry riding, and even dry/dusty riding, using SuperSecret over top of the wax is nearly equivalent to re-waxing with hot wax.

For Mocs123, Ludicrous AF is an oil based lube

For Dat, if you think Ludricrous is good, Synergetic is significantly lower wearing and longer lasting per application as nearly identical friction values and at half the price.

Screen Shot 2021-12-02 at 12.11.52 PM.png

What is the current generation of the hot melt wax? I just received a bag which is lot # one

[Hexsense]

I just bought some Molten Speed Wax; $20 a pound. Seems expensive for 8 chains that they say it will do. I'm looking to cut costs here. Gulf Wax at Walmart is really cheap, but I want to put some additive in it. My objective is not to lower friction (I could care less about that). I want cleanliness, max time between relubing, and quietness. I don't want to clean the chain between waxing (although a hot water wash would be OK). PTFE powder seems reasonable. MoS2 not so much because it's a dark color, not crazy about oil. WS2 maybe. I'm not keen on these powders though, as I don't want to breath them in while working with them. I think @Tobinhatesyou says the additives don't do anything and uses straight wax. Ozcycle says 10% PTFE. PTFE isn't cheap either.

8 chains, as 8 chains from new to worn out.
If you use 3 chains a year then that's over 2 years...

[tleo]

I bought 2 lbs of Gulf Wax about the same time as BdaGhisallo over 2 years ago and have at least 3/4 lb. left. I have over 8000 miles on my road chains and over 1000 miles on my mtn bike chains (since I just started trail riding last summer). I run 250 miles on the road bike and 125 on the mtn bike all in dry conditions.

As far as cost, MSW isn't very expensive when you look at all the chains you can wax with it but you'll never beat Gulf Wax since it is dirt cheap. I only melt enough in the crockpot to just cover the chain by a little. That way when it starts getting too dirty I can just dump the little bit that is left and put in some fresh.

As for cleaning before waxing I just take a rag with some naphtha on it and do a quick wipe of the chains before waxing, if I remember that is. I've used MSW in the past and it works great but I think it is a little messier since it starts out black instead of white like Gulf Wax.

[alanyu]

Those who use MSW v2 or DIY wax, how do they work at sub zero, let's say -5 C?

[MikeD]

I just bought some Molten Speed Wax; $20 a pound. Seems expensive for 8 chains that they say it will do. I'm looking to cut costs here. Gulf Wax at Walmart is really cheap, but I want to put some additive in it. My objective is not to lower friction (I could care less about that). I want cleanliness, max time between relubing, and quietness. I don't want to clean the chain between waxing (although a hot water wash would be OK). PTFE powder seems reasonable. MoS2 not so much because it's a dark color, not crazy about oil. WS2 maybe. I'm not keen on these powders though, as I don't want to breath them in while working with them. I think @Tobinhatesyou says the additives don't do anything and uses straight wax. Ozcycle says 10% PTFE. PTFE isn't cheap either.

8 chains, as 8 chains from new to worn out.
If you use 3 chains a year then that's over 2 years...

Actual, it's 8 waxings. Just wrote the company and they confirmed that, but said 8 was very conservative and it's easily double that or even more if you clean your chain in boiling water before putting it in the wax.

[TobinHatesYou]

Those who use MSW v2 or DIY wax, how do they work at sub zero, let's say -5 C?

It is still great at reducing drivetrain wear, but I have no way of measuring efficiency, so who knows about that. Wet lubes also lose efficiency at colder temps, so it’s really just the non-wax dry drip lubes that except in (dry) cold conditions.

When it’s freezing here, it’s usually wet or humid, so if I made a habit of riding in those temps I might consider oil-based lube like Synergetic. For now I’m using plain paraffin plus more frequent top-offs with UFO Drip v2.

[pdlpsher1]

I use DIY wax exclusively and ride even when it’s colder than -5C. It’s fine at that temp. Wax is a solid lube so temp changes probably has less of an effect on it as compared to a wet lube. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if it has less friction at -5C than at 30C.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pdlpsher1]

MoS2 is black but the amount you add to the wax is so little it doesn’t make the chain black. PTFE is cheaper if you buy it from China. It’s the same stuff as the ones sold elsewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk