Chain lubricants

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

dialtone
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:31 am

by dialtone

BBres wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:15 am
dialtone wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:47 am
I don't even care about the efficiency gain of wax. I stopped the oils because you can't touch the chain without making a mess. I just prefer not having to deal with dirty hands mid ride.
Actually Squirt is not particularly clean lube. I'd say it's a mediocre. IMO Muc-off C3 dry ceramic is better than Squirt in terms of cleannness. And it has different structure than oil lubes - is it easy to wipe off hands with a dry cloth or just water (that is why it is not efficient in wet conditions. In rain it gets washed out).

After cleaning my drivetrain and applying the C3 lube, it is almost completely clean and shining after 200 km. It gets dirty when you apply too much or just pour too much on the chain instead of dripping single drop on every roller as per instruction. Afterwards it is recommended to wipe excess.
I completely agree. Squirt is terrible, I've used it a bunch but it made my drivetrain very dirty and tacky. MSW doesn't have the same effect and I got Silca/Banana slip to try a drier replacement for squirt. I also have that Muc-off C3 but never used it, not planning to though because wax really is where I want to be at the moment.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Squirt is OK if you use one drop per link, smush it in with your fingers and wipe off the excess. But yes, Ceramic Speed UFO Drip is the most like dry wax (though also has a higher relubing interval) and Silca Super Secret is in second with slightly longer per-application endurance. UFO Drip is way easier to apply though because Silca Super Secret's surface tension is so low...

abonjour
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:03 pm

by abonjour

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:22 pm
abonjour wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:05 pm
I used to use Muc Off C3 and I never understood how he managed to get such poor results with it, I never wore out a chain or cassette/rings in 5 years... I gave up tracking mileage! This was use in all weather, clean and relube 1x per couple of weeks unless I rode in the rain.s

He didn’t test C3 AFAIK. C3 is definitely one of the cleaner running non-wax drip lubes, but so is RnR Gold, which is proven to be an decent performer in terms of efficiency, but less so in longevity.
Sorry yes, it was hydrodynamic he tested wasnt it... my bad. Used hydrodynamic too on a different bike, again didn't find it as bad as he did but then didn't do as much riding on that one.

Torbjorn
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:44 pm

by Torbjorn

Roadbiker10 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:22 pm
Torbjorn wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:14 pm
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:45 am
Ok, thanks everyone for chiming in. I have until spring, when I start riding outside. I'll hold of on buying anymore oil lubes and see if I will try the wax with my indoor drivetrain first. How big does the ultrasonic cleaner have to be? There's a cheaper one that is 850ml. Is that too small? Or 2,5L?
You can buy an ultrasonic cleaner if you want to be really serious about getting your chain(s) ultra, ultra clean. They are not that expensive, either, I believe. But I just want to add that you don't HAVE to buy one, following a process with repeated vigorous shaking in first a degreaser of some sort, then acetone/isopropanol will get you 95% there. I have tried both, and I have to admit I can't tell the difference. After cleaning the chain manually, when I shake/rattle it gently (after having properly dried the chain), I hear the same metal-to-metal "clanking", signifying a very clean chain with no remaining oil or grease of any sort. People might disagree, but 1) if you use a drip-on wax-based lube (ie, no regular wax immersion needed), and 2) if you don't really ride in the wet all the time (which might necessitate taking the chain off the bike for super thorough cleaning - even though I doubt it), I think the only time you will need to go through the process discussed above is once - when the chain is new. And with these wax-based lubes comes much increased chain longevity, so this will be very rare. So everyone should weigh the pros against the cons before spending money on an ultrasonic cleaner.
Yeah, I won't buy one right away anyway. I'll try the aforementioned method first. But when you put the wax on, are you saying I can go the whole season march to sep-oct, without cleaning the drivetrain?
I don't know exactly what you mean by cleaning, but if you mean without cleaning with water/soap/degreaser/whatever else, then yes, that's what I do. I see Josh Poertner just contradicted this practice, as he wrote here to clean the chain every 1000-1200 km. I assume he means with hot water (to melt and remove the old wax), as with wax lubes I don't believe there is a need for soap or degreaser, as there is no oil or grease there. I almost never ride in the wet, so personally I just haven't seen the need to do this. I know I can't know for sure what is going on inside the chain and each link, but based on how the outside of the chain looks (it looks sparkling clean after each time I wipe the chain down thoroughly with a towel - which I do after every bike ride), so I just keep reapplying the drip-based wax every 2-300 km. It seems to be working very well for me, but others may disagree? I guess Josh does! If I've been riding in the wet, the bike and drivetrain is clearly dirty, so then I clean both the classic way with different brushes, a sponge and a bucket of water and soap. And hot water for the chain if I can be bothered.
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:45 am
So when I'm washing the bike, what do I do to the drivetrain? Do I just wash it with soap or any bike cleaner like I would normally? From what I've read, you have to re do the waxing after washing. Sorry if it's a noob question. Maybe the point is to not wash the bike at all.
Normally I clean my bike simply with a wet/damp cloth, passing through everywhere. The chain I wipe down with a dry cotton towel. As I said, if I've been out in the wet, the level of dirtiness is completely different, so here I use much more water, etc.
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:45 am
Is the wax more difficult to get of when washing compared to oil based? Or is it supposed to stay on? But I can't see how it would stay on after washing.
My experience is that the wax is fairly resistant to cold water, even hot water if just sprayed/dumped on the chain (which is still on the bike), but that it will come off quite easily in hot water immersion (giving the time for the chain and wax to heat up and dissolve). But as I said, whatever is left inside the chain after I wipe off the exterior of the chain I usually just leave there, and fill up with a new drop on each link. I should add that I've been doing this on two bikes for 3 years now (first two years with Squirt, and then all of 2021 with Silca Super Secret) and my chains are lasting a really long time, much longer than what I experienced before with oil-based lubes. And the chains and whole drivetrain is much much cleaner overall, the wax just attracts so much less dirt/particles than do the oil-based products.
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:45 am
When they say like 300km something for the Silca drip wax. Do they mean just wiping of with a rag and reapplying every 300km or striping it again?
Here the answer is 100% clear, they mean just wiping off with a rag and then reapplying.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The only regular cleaning I perform on my drivetrain is pouring boiling water over the chain when I take it off. Every half year or so I pour boiling water over the cassette to get the gunk in between the cogs out. Pulleys get the stuff plastic bristle brush every few months.

MagicShite
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:33 pm

by MagicShite

Squirt boy here, one drop per link is the way to go. (Frequent application is recommended for the first 500km as the penetration is bad)

If you follow the directions and never degrease it, it gets super good once full penetration is reached. Very quiet operation and fairly clean. The gunk doesn't build up if you wipe it down with alcohol + rag after every ride.

vjswing
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:52 pm

by vjswing

Based on some of the analysis work at Zero Friction Cycling, I've been running Squirt on the MTB, which for all intents and purposes is a gravel bike, and is never used under wet conditions by choice. Adam at ZFC talked about how the wider chains (like the one on MTB with an 8-speed cassette) allow for much better penetration inside the links when using Squirt than narrower chains (11-speed on my road bike). The "Squirt-lubed" MTB drivetrain stays ridiculously clean and gunk-free, and I probably go at least 400-500 km between applications.

I continue to use RNR Gold on the road bike. Much cleaner than the oil based lube I used to use, but I still seem to flush out lots of dirt each time I wash the bike. Minimal maintenance from ride to ride, beyond wiping the chain down, and I re-apply at intervals of 300 km.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

How about a toothbrush, soap (as used when you do the dishes) & hot water aswell as some brake cleaner (like you use for cleaning rotors etc on motorcycles).
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

Eterna7m
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:25 pm

by Eterna7m

Does c3 flake out as well?
I currently on squirts and the flakes are quite annoying using the bike mainly indoors recently.
(I hot pot waxed them initially but after some time I tend to apply squirts because I'm too lazy to reapply the wax)

joshatsilca
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:52 pm

by joshatsilca

Eterna7m wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:27 pm
Does c3 flake out as well?
I currently on squirts and the flakes are quite annoying using the bike mainly indoors recently.
(I hot pot waxed them initially but after some time I tend to apply squirts because I'm too lazy to reapply the wax)
For indoor you should really consider Synergetic, or the new Synerg-E wet lube we just launched. In ZFC block 1 (clean/dry) both record 0.0% wear compared to 20+% wear with Squirt.. but both are also viscous enough to stay in the chain with no drips or spatter for indoor riding. Synerg-E is slightly higher viscosity and has a tackifier to ensure that it stays inside the chain under ultra-high e-bike loads, but also makes it a perfect indoor lube as it can't/won't fling out.
Owner of SILCA
Check out my Tech Blog: https://blog.silca.cc
Stories of the Tech behind the Tech: https://marginalgainspodcast.cc

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Silca Super Secret (or CS UFO Drip) + trainer mat + dustbuster works out just fine too. Your pool of sweat will be nastier than the line of wax flakes under your drivetrain anyway.

Eterna7m
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:25 pm

by Eterna7m

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:57 am
Silca Super Secret (or CS UFO Drip) + trainer mat + dustbuster works out just fine too. Your pool of sweat will be nastier than the line of wax flakes under your drivetrain anyway.
I don't really care about the stuff on the floor, my issue is rather that I have an elite suito, which has an open freewheel and the flakes accumulate in there. Nothing too severe yet but who knows in the long run

1llum4
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:00 am

by 1llum4

I am using tru-tension all weather on the trainer and it's pretty clean & no flaking.

ghdana
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:43 pm

by ghdana

Trying out Squirt, about 2 weeks in with applications every 2-3 rides. The flaking is kinda gross and dirty.

I think when I'm done with the bottle I'm going back to Rock N Roll Dry lube, which has done a great job in the past keeping my components in good shape and quiet. Downside to it is that it does leave it's mark on everything it touches.
7.7kg Allez Sprint
9kg Exploro Ultra

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

ghdana wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:07 am
Trying out Squirt, about 2 weeks in with applications every 2-3 rides. The flaking is kinda gross and dirty.

I think when I'm done with the bottle I'm going back to Rock N Roll Dry lube, which has done a great job in the past keeping my components in good shape and quiet. Downside to it is that it does leave it's mark on everything it touches.

How long are your rides? It sounds like you are overlubing your drivetrain, both in terms of per application and frequency. Also make sure your chain is fully degreased before ever switching to a wax-based lube.

I would have no issue running a single application of Squirt for ~300km in dry conditions. Apply one tiny drop per roller on a section of chain, run your fingers over the chain, repeat on another section of chain. Let it dry overnight.

Better yet, use Ceramic Speed UFO Drip as that’s the easiest wax-based drip lube to apply, and also among the fastest.

Post Reply