New dura-ace R9100

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Daniel1975
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 pm

by Daniel1975

iSante dus :D

SL1
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:43 pm

by SL1

So an Apple employee must of infiltrated Shimano's headquarters in the 80's then.

That is a crime against bikes. ^^^^^

by Weenie


Broady
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:02 pm

by Broady

I had full Sante on an old bike, quite liked it!

claus
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:04 pm

by claus

Daniel1975 wrote:Windows 10 for free; sounds almost to good to be true!!


It's as free as Google's stuff: you are paying with your data...
everything you do will be recorded -- well, as long as you only use it to set up your fancy electronics, it probably doesn't matter too much.

jwfinesse
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Location: NY

by jwfinesse

So here is my take on the block on 10th and 11th gear when in small ring:
- When e-tube setting is on 52/36 and 50/34 cranks, the 'gear position control' mode is on. This mode blocks the shifting to 10,11t on the small ring. (and it's impossible to turn off if the crank setting is at 52/36 or 50/34)
- The rest of the available cranks settings such as 53/39, or 52/38, the 'gear position control' mode selection becomes activated and you can choose either to turn it on or off.
So it's possible to bypass whole 10,11th ban by selecting standard crank setting on E-tube


My guess for why it blocks the users is:
By design, neither of RD9150 & RD9100 have derailleur pivot spring (one at the hanger bolt), which takes up the chain slack at small/small combo in RD9070 and RD9000. The only way to give the chain tension is by tightening b-tension bolt. So on 9100 series RDs, B-tension bolt dictates both chain tension and pulley-to-cog distance. On 11th cog at the rear, and 34/36 at front, chain slack is too much if the chain is sized per Shimano spec (big-big + 2 links method). If b-tension is adjusted to eliminate the chain slack, then pulley-to-cog distance is too much and degrades shifting performance.

If the chain tension is set on 9th, pulley-to-sprocket distance comes down to acceptable range. But then it's impossible to ride using 10,11th cogs because of the aforementioned chain slack. Hence the ban.

OTOH, 53-39 or 52-38 cranks have 14t difference between rings, while 52-36, 50-34 have 16t. Those 2t difference at the crank can be translated to 11th - 9th cog teeth difference (usually 13t-11t = 2t) when using 50/34 or 52/36. That may be why 52-36 and 50-34 are banned while bigger cranks are allowed to shift to 10,11th cogs.


I know. Crappy explanation, but my best shot :)


One other thing. I sized two chains; One per shimano spec and the other 1 full link shorter. With a shorter-than-Shimano spec chain, it's easy to maintain chain tension on 11t and keep the pulley-to-cog distance at acceptable range. But the drive train screams when cross chained big-big. On Shimano spec'ed chain, it's impossible to use 11t on small ring with small enough pulley-to-cog distance for acceptable shifting performance.

So I guess you have to pick your poison.

To sum up:
1.Use a shorter chain if you want to use the 10,11th cog (you can bypass the block via e-tube software)
2.If sticking with Shimano-spec length, then cog block is inevitable :)

OR man the f'up and use standard cranks and rid of all this nonsense.
Attachments
P20170205_122930000_F2A90160-B1B6-4A34-A004-D08C78C9C10E.PNG
if compact or mid compact crank selected, the whole thing becomes deactivated: 'on' being default
P20170205_122940000_100C93CE-EF86-43EF-BB7B-A11505422E5B.PNG
See the gear position control setting activated and you can choose.

deek
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:32 pm

by deek

Do you have to specify which crankset you're using (9100 vs 9000)? I think they lock it out in 50/34 and 52/36 because it's possible for the rivets on the outer ring to pick up the chain when you're in the small ring and small cog without shifting when you have a 135OLD bike and short chainstays. That's why Specialized used their dumb SCS wheels on their disc brake frames and why Shimano moved the inner ring inboard on 9100.

You're less likely to pick up the chain with 53/39 because the inner ring isn't as large compared to the inner ring.

Daniel1975
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 pm

by Daniel1975

claus wrote:
Daniel1975 wrote:Windows 10 for free; sounds almost to good to be true!!


It's as free as Google's stuff: you are paying with your data...
everything you do will be recorded -- well, as long as you only use it to set up your fancy electronics, it probably doesn't matter too much.

I only want to use it for setup and Tacx Trainer Software 4 (doenst run on Mac).
So the only data they get is how high my FTP is ;-)

ooo
Posts: 670
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

another ew-rs911 drawing
Attachments
ew-rs910.png
'

joejack951
Posts: 462
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

SL1 wrote:Apple buy Shimano ? Sounds like a nightmare gone bad. Imagine the horror............white groupsets. :| :| :| :o :o :o :lol: :lol: :lol:


I found out about this groupset recently (SRAM Apex White). Not as white as Sante, though.

Image

User avatar
WonderSausage
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:51 pm

by WonderSausage

jwfinesse wrote:So here is my take on the block on 10th and 11th gear when in small ring:
- When e-tube setting is on 52/36 and 50/34 cranks, the 'gear position control' mode is on. This mode blocks the shifting to 10,11t on the small ring. (and it's impossible to turn off if the crank setting is at 52/36 or 50/34)
- The rest of the available cranks settings such as 53/39, or 52/38, the 'gear position control' mode selection becomes activated and you can choose either to turn it on or off.
So it's possible to bypass whole 10,11th ban by selecting standard crank setting on E-tube


I just finished testing the same thing (for a video I'm making) and I concur with your findings. However, note that the setting is available when using 50/34, it just doesn't have any effect on small ring/small cassette cogs combo. On 50/34 you can enable/disable big ring/big cassette cog lockout with the setting.

I should have the video done in a day or so. I also show the app on all 5 platforms (Android phone & tablet, iOS phone & tablet, and PC).

jwfinesse
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Location: NY

by jwfinesse

@WonderSausage

Which method did you use to size up the chain? Per Shimano spec?

I am still trying to decide which chain length is optimal for shifting.

User avatar
WonderSausage
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:51 pm

by WonderSausage

jwfinesse wrote:@WonderSausage

Which method did you use to size up the chain? Per Shimano spec?

I am still trying to decide which chain length is optimal for shifting.


Normally I use the the method of running through the rear derailleur and giving just enough tension to bring the cage off the spring stops. But this being a brand new design, I'll use Shimano's large-large + 2 links method for the first install so I can say I did it per spec. I have a Quarq ELSA RS crank with DA9000 50-34 rings.

Bigger question is whether to assemble the bike now without the proper handlebars and change later once I can get ones that will take the EW-RS910, or just wait for the right bars. Weather is terrible here and I'm riding the rain bike and/or Zwift, so there's no rush other than my desire to try out the new groupset.

Video is edited and uploading.

snowdevlin
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:51 pm

by snowdevlin

Looking forward for seeing the video, will you upload to YouTube,?

lovemyway
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:32 am

by lovemyway

I wanted to order the R9170 for my ViAS Disc, but I've just heard that the release (at least in Poland) has been pushed back as far as the end of June. I'm seriously starting to think about the eTap HRD now.

Broady
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:02 pm

by Broady

Pretty sure eTap HRD is delayed too.

by Weenie


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