New dura-ace R9100

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nemeseri
Posts: 794
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm

by nemeseri

stormur wrote:Few days ago I talked with guy from Shimano Nordic. 2016/17 will be no new Ultegra, and WILL BE new DA, however NOT wireless. He said that cable could be not assembled to the bike (those on images taken) , but wireless is not even considered as not reliable as cable is. Possibly presentation will be in Taipei on Spring '17, but also it's possible to see (almost) final product at the end of this year.


2017 spring?? Really? I was really hoping for an announcement / appearance in the pro peloton during the tour and release date in September.

by Weenie


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maxxevv
Posts: 2012
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

It was presented in Taipei. Behind closed doors and only by invitation.

stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

mimason wrote:^old news.


So what for all delibarations, if all is already known and left just waiting for obvious ?


I'm just repeating what was given to me. Blame Shimano and /or their rep. ;)
IMHO If Shimano will feel in $al€ numbers that eTap is on the market, will release new Di2 earlier than later, otherwise...
Staying with cables Shimano don't steal from Sram their main sale engine : wireless. Plus Rotor will come with Uno , and maybe FSA... those arrivals will determine 9100 premiere time as well. Things will happened- good for us :)
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

Philbar72
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:47 am

by Philbar72

Shimano won't ditch Di2. it won't go wireless. you'll just see slight ergo changes and a tiny weight save and shiny new Cranksets. the mechanical will be a slight improvement on 9000 with a tiny weight save.

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

Nobody has confirmed that Shimano is coming out with an updated mechanical version of Dura Ace. Not sure they need to either. I know I don't see myself upgrading based on what little I've read so far. There would have to be some very special enticement and a built in power meter or support for easier gearing is not it
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels


jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy



Wonder if the new Dura Ace crank will be available without a power meter?

The best is getting better. The next generation of Shimano’s top-tier Dura-Ace group, already our favorite on the electronic and mechanical fronts, will include a power meter, road-specific disc brakes and rotors, improved Di2 integration, drag-free hubs, and the same clever shifting firmware debuted on the XTR Di2 mountain bike group.

We reached out to a Shimano representative, who refused to comment. But weeks of research, including conversations with industry insiders briefed on the group (who all requested anonymity), and analysis of published and unpublished spy photos, indicate that the group is an ambitious update that closes a few important holes in the current group. The most obvious of those is a Dura-Ace level disc system, which is both lighter and better tuned to the specific demands of road discs than the current technology, much of which is borrowed from Shimano’s mountain bike division.

New Dura-Ace will still be an 11-speed system and will retain the shiny aesthetics of the current generation (somewhat similar to the old XTR 960 finish). But most of the fine details, from hub internals to front derailleur cable routing, have been changed or updated. The Di2 version has been slimmed down, with smaller motors and batteries, and features firmware borrowed from XTR Di2.

Road-specific disc brakes
The addition of a Dura-Ace level hydraulic disc system is the single greatest change. This is the first hydro group from Shimano that appears to be designed from the ground up for road use. (R785, available now, was launched with a rebranded XT mountain bike caliper.) The rotors are road specific, with a new aluminum carrier that presumably cuts down on weight. The steel braking surface of the rotor has fewer holes, which has been shown to reduce brake pad wear.

Internally, the flat-mount caliper has some sort of internal brace for (we assume) improved stiffness and has more clearance for frame manufacturers. Other internal changes offer slightly more pad clearance, which should reduce rotor rub.

Power meter
The new crankset, which retains the current four-arm design, includes a power meter with strain gauges on the crank arms and a “brain” mounted on the inside of the crank spider. It is Shimano’s first power meter.

Integrated junction box
Perhaps taking a cue from the Trek Madone’s control center — a port in the down tube that hides the Di2 junction box — Shimano has developed a sleek, integrated junction box that secures into the bike’s frame. That means no more hanging the junction box off the stem, and more options for internal routing. It also means frame builders will have to build frames that can accept this new feature.

But don’t worry if your favorite manufacturer doesn’t offer this nifty new pocket, because it also appears the junction box will fit in a bar end, as well. The box seems to press into the handlebars much like a bar end plug.

Customizable shifting
Updates to the Dura-Ace Di2 firmware also look imminent. It appears that Shimano will bring the Synchro system debuted on XTR Di2 to the road. Synchro is essentially automatic front shifting, requiring the use of only two shift buttons to shift the entire drivetrain. When the derailleur reaches a certain point (which is customizable) on the rear cassette, the front derailleur shifts, while the rear derailleur shifts in the opposite direction. The idea is a rider gets similar gear jumps with each button push. It’s a system that is made possible by Di2’s incredible front shifting. It’s similar but not identical to Campagnolo’s new auto-shifting options made possible through the My Campy app.

Front derailleur cable routing has been changed for the cable-actuated group, further reducing shift force. The system is apparently much easier to set up now, too.

Radical new hubs
Some of the most exciting advancements are hidden in places you’ll never see. Patent applications for Shimano’s Scylence hub leaked months ago, and now it seems like we’ll see it in action soon. Unlike a typical freehub body that relies on pawls that engage with grooves when the rider pedals, or a star ratchet system that features notched teeth on two rings mounted against each other, Scylence works more like the clutch on your car, but somewhat in reverse, if patent applications are telling the whole tale. An engagement ring is mounted around the axle inboard toward the hub shell, and it’s spring-loaded in such a way that the spring pulls the ring toward the hub shell. A specially designed freehub body with splines essentially pulls that ring toward it, against spring tension, to engage the hub when the rider pedals. When the rider coasts, the engagement ring disengages, creating nearly drag-free coasting.

It wouldn’t be the first pawl-free design to hit the market — Onyx showed off a sprag clutch hub at Sea Otter 2015 — but if history is any indicator, Shimano has taken the drag-free idea and perfected it.


Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/03/ ... bMOAevF.99

bungis
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:59 pm

by bungis

That's awesome, especially the power meter, integrated j-box, and customizable (to regulate too much front shifting) synchronized shifting.

Competition is good.

pamountainbiker
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:49 am

by pamountainbiker

As a lifelong Shimano user, I've got to say that the details about the new Dura Ace don't excite me that much. And this is from a first adopter of 9070 which has been faultless for a few years now.

Integrated powermeter - Wonderful, I guess, for folks that don't already have one.

Disc brakes - Here too, wonderful, if only I had a road disc bike. (I bought one last year, brand new, rode it a few times, it sat unused for months and I recently sold it). I'll probably get another one at some point, but I can tell you this, my main complaint was with the weight on the handlebars, I seriously doubt Shimano was able to remove, like, a pound of weight from the disc levers. Maybe 100 grams...maybe 25-50 grams from the rotors, etc. I'm not knocking discs but besides making them look sleeker which is great, it's not like they were going to be 450+ grams lighter all in. It's not physically / economically possible with the constraints of thermal heat dispersement. A guy from Shimano told me this about 6 months ago. They'll be lighter, sure but by a huge magnitude, probably not. They will look nicer though, which counts for something.

Silent Hubs - Great innovation, I'm glad I can save a watt while coasting, who actually uses Shimano hubs anyway? I have! But again, it's not like these are crazy industry innovations here.

New junction box: Seriously, now let's have manufacturers accommodate another integrated component that in 3 years won't need to exist anyway because...wireless. This is the dumbest thing. It's literally not just planned obsolescence, it's practically projected obsolescence, as in start the clock in t-minus 3 years your frame with that integrated junction port is literally going to look so 2016. This is literally the first time where I thought to myself, those Sram guys are actually onto something with wireless. Before this "new integrated junction magic box that will require special frames or special Hbars" I was all "Sram eTap is nice but not enough to entice." I'm seriously wondering where Shimano's head was on this. Sure, no one ideally likes to see the junction box...but having frames built to accept it...c'mon.

Synchroshift for road - Thank goodness I can finally now stop thinking about when to shift. This will greatly improve the experience of riding. I get that this is essentially a software issue, and was a "gimme," but it's underwhelming.

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Like, a pound? There's only just over half a pound difference between hydro DI2 and 9070 levers for the pair anyway. They're only a fraction heavier than mechanical 6800 levers. If you had to ride an ultegra bike would you be going around complaining that your bars felt too heavy?

jorisee01
Posts: 386
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 8:22 pm

by jorisee01

I like the new synchro shift feature. One lever for UP and one for DOWN.


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fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

I'm on mechanical/caliper set-up. I don't use a power meter. The 9100 doesn't seem to have any special appeal. Maybe on my gravel bike which has disc brakes but I don't ride that bike with speed in mind, more for gravel and winter riding so the weight issue doesn't really factor all that much.

I think this will appeal to riders on disc who want better integration with their cycling computers. Reading the spec I'm thinking the speculation that 9000 is the last iteration of mechanical/caliper may be correct.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels

nemeseri
Posts: 794
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm

by nemeseri

pamountainbiker wrote:As a lifelong Shimano user, I've got to say that the details about the new Dura Ace don't excite me that much. And this is from a first adopter of 9070 which has been faultless for a few years now.

Integrated powermeter - Wonderful, I guess, for folks that don't already have one.

Disc brakes - Here too, wonderful, if only I had a road disc bike. (I bought one last year, brand new, rode it a few times, it sat unused for months and I recently sold it). I'll probably get another one at some point, but I can tell you this, my main complaint was with the weight on the handlebars, I seriously doubt Shimano was able to remove, like, a pound of weight from the disc levers. Maybe 100 grams...maybe 25-50 grams from the rotors, etc. I'm not knocking discs but besides making them look sleeker which is great, it's not like they were going to be 450+ grams lighter all in. It's not physically / economically possible with the constraints of thermal heat dispersement. A guy from Shimano told me this about 6 months ago. They'll be lighter, sure but by a huge magnitude, probably not. They will look nicer though, which counts for something.

Silent Hubs - Great innovation, I'm glad I can save a watt while coasting, who actually uses Shimano hubs anyway? I have! But again, it's not like these are crazy industry innovations here.

New junction box: Seriously, now let's have manufacturers accommodate another integrated component that in 3 years won't need to exist anyway because...wireless. This is the dumbest thing. It's literally not just planned obsolescence, it's practically projected obsolescence, as in start the clock in t-minus 3 years your frame with that integrated junction port is literally going to look so 2016. This is literally the first time where I thought to myself, those Sram guys are actually onto something with wireless. Before this "new integrated junction magic box that will require special frames or special Hbars" I was all "Sram eTap is nice but not enough to entice." I'm seriously wondering where Shimano's head was on this. Sure, no one ideally likes to see the junction box...but having frames built to accept it...c'mon.

Synchroshift for road - Thank goodness I can finally now stop thinking about when to shift. This will greatly improve the experience of riding. I get that this is essentially a software issue, and was a "gimme," but it's underwhelming.


I think it's a pretty decent upgrade. I will definitely buy it given I wanted to upgrade from ultegra to DA for a while now anyway. Also having a new player in the PM market means more affordable PM prices across the board. Shimano usually doesn't mess things up, so I'd love to try their PM, even though I already use Pioneer on both of my bikes.

Given you are disappointed, what did you expect?
Last edited by nemeseri on Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

will be *very* interesting what price their power meter crank comes in at ..... both List and "Available online for".
Could be devastating in the PM price wars.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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nemeseri
Posts: 794
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:40 pm

by nemeseri

jeffy wrote:will be *very* interesting what price their power meter crank comes in at ..... both List and "Available online for".
Could be devastating in the PM price wars.


Exactly. They can destroy multiple PM companies and startups with this single move. They will cut out huge chunk of the PM market.

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