Colnago C60 - Campagnolo bottom bracket

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
mag
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Anyone knows a good screw-together type PF86 BB for Campagnolo UT? I don't really trust the current Colnago's BB sleeve solution much (not single-piece sleeve anymore) so looking for some good BB that will help holding it all together a little.

EDIT: Nobody answers, so listing what I've found:
- Wishbone BB8625C http://www.wishbonetw.com/product-1.php?id=14
- TRiPEAK EMA-PB86-CPBB http://tripeakbearing.com/product-detai ... =34&sId=42
Both can be bought via eBay, will go with the Wishbone most likely as the TRiPEAK contains some plastic contact parts which I wouldn't trust much in the long run.

garypremo
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

by garypremo

****************************************COLNAGO C64 GOES TO FULLY THREADED BOTTOM BRACKET****************************

The Colnago C64 bottom bracket is now a fully threaded solution. There are no press fit parts. The bottom bracket has been developed in conjunction with Ceramic Speed and versions will be available for Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM cranksets. The Ceramic Speed bottom bracket carries a 4 year warranty and is compatible with other Colnago bikes that use the ThreadFit 82.5 system (C60, V1-r, V2-r and Concept).

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/art ... ded-51717/

EDIT 2/12/2018: I wish to apologize for and to eliminate any confusion this post has caused. This post was made Friday 2/9/2018 which is when the information was coming out fast and furious from reviewers of the new Colnago C64. Some of that information was misleading or incomplete. This original post (above) leaves the impression that a fully threaded solution is the ONLY solution available on the C64, which is NOT the case. As you can see from the posts below, all commenters, including me, are now in agreement on the following:

1) The bottom bracket of the C64 is essentially unchanged from the C60, apart from mechanical cable routing improvements.
2) The C64 will continue to support existing press fit solutions as well as fully threaded after market solutions like the Wishbone TF82525C and others.
3) Colnago has partnered with Ceramicspeed to provide threaded bottom bracket solutions for Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM.
4) Regarding the Ceramicspeed bottom bracket solution for Campagnolo Ultra Torque it is expected that Ceramicspeed will be providing a solution that looks very much like the Wishbone TF82525C.
5) All Ceramicspeed bottom bracket solutions will be compatable with existing Colnago models using the TF82.5 standard (C60, V1-r, V2-r, Concept and CLX).

Thanks,
-Gary
Last edited by garypremo on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
2016 Colnago C60 PLWH 61 CM Traditional Geometry

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Calnago
Posts: 6069
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Hmmm... I think I'm going to hold off saying any more on this till I have more details or actually see it. I wrote something in the other thread about the new C64 entitled "C60 Replacement Coming?", but what you're saying kind of contradicts that. And the article you reference doesn't seem to make things much clearer either. Where did you get the part about Ceramic speed offering a Campagnolo version BB. All they could possibly be providing is an alternative to the $40 cups, as the CULT bearings are pressed onto the cranks and I'd be hard pressed to believe there's any better alternative to those bearings that I'd want to consider.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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TonyM
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

I also want to wait and see how but is really in the BB of the C64....

mag
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Quoting Mr. Fumagalli's comment from bikeradar.com
Frame side, it’s the very same solution as the C60, v1, v2, concept and clx.
The ceramic speed bb is an optional way to get rid of the pressfit things, you can still use the threaded cups as the c60 and then press in your favourite bb 86.5/41.

Of course the ceramic speed bb is compatible with c60 and all the above mentioned frames!
I think it's pretty clear now.

And mention of the Ceramic Speed option for Campagnolo comes from colnago.com. Wondering how that will look like. Probably just something similar to the Wishbone one.

garypremo
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

by garypremo

Hi Calnago:

I am not sure where I originally saw the information about the Ceramic Speed partnership and the support for Campagnolo cranksets, but as Mag has stated, this is confirmed at the Campagnolo site at: http://www.colnago.com/us/c64/

I take your point that it would seem ironic for Ceramic Speed to offer a BB solution for Campy since the CULT bearings are provided as part of the crankset. On the other hand, it would seem odd for Ceramic Speed, as Colnago's partner on the C64 project to exclude support for a popular crankset such as Campy Super Record.

I guess we won't know for sure until one of us is holding the darn thing in our own two hands!

-Gary
2016 Colnago C60 PLWH 61 CM Traditional Geometry

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Calnago
Posts: 6069
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

It's the same as the latest C60's. The Ceramic Speed option just seems to be, like @mag states... simply a solution pretty much the same as what Wishbone is doing currently. I will stick with the Colnago Threadfit cups and use the Campy pressfit cups along with that. The Wishbone solution looks ok, but where the bearings sit lacks the anodization that the Campy cups have, and I know from experience how precisely machined the Campy cups are. They work, I have never had a problem with them, and you don't have to mess with the fine threads of the Colnago Threadfit system. All good. So far, the new Bottom Bracket is the crown jewel of the C64 imo.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

garypremo
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

by garypremo

I contacted Ceramicspeed to find out when information will be available on the Threadfit 82.5 bottom bracket solutions for Colnago models with the TF82.5 standard. Below is the reply:

Hi Gary

Thank you for the mail and your interest in our new product.
The Website should have it up on next Friday. They are working on it, in Marketing.

Venlig hilsen / Best regards,

Kim Sigkjær Jakobsen
Sales & Logistics Support

Noergaardsvej 3
DK-7500 Holstebro

Mobile: +45 25101425
Skype: Ksj_Ceramicspeed.com

I am assuming "next Friday" means February 23, 2018.

-Gary
2016 Colnago C60 PLWH 61 CM Traditional Geometry

mag
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

Some info (and 1 photo) about the CeramicSpeed BB at the UK distributor's website: http://www.windwave.co.uk/Products.aspx ... D=74736755
UK retail price is £234

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TonyM
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:11 pm

by TonyM

mag wrote:Some info (and 1 photo) about the CeramicSpeed BB at the UK distributor's website: http://www.windwave.co.uk/Products.aspx ... D=74736755
UK retail price is £234

Not sure that I understand it....

It replaces the cups.

But how does it work with my Super Record UT crankset that has the bearings on the axle? Or is it meant to work with Dura Ace crankset for example?

c60rider
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

TonyM wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:23 pm
mag wrote:Some info (and 1 photo) about the CeramicSpeed BB at the UK distributor's website: http://www.windwave.co.uk/Products.aspx ... D=74736755
UK retail price is £234

Not sure that I understand it....

It replaces the cups.

But how does it work with my Super Record UT crankset that has the bearings on the axle? Or is it meant to work with Dura Ace crankset for example?
It looks as though it's a one piece cup. So rather than separate Colnago threadfit cups screwed into the frame and pressing the Campagnolo cups into that it's a one piece solution like a typical BSA/Italian threaded bottom bracket. Looking at that I imagine you remove the bearings off your Campag cranks, push the Ceramic Speed ones on, screw the Ceramic Speed bottom bracket into the frame and then fit Campag cranks as normal. Hard to say if the Ceramic Speed and Campag bearings are the same dimensions. It's expensive but I can imagine it would eliminate any creaking that might develop from the press fit bottom bracket. If I ever had problems with my C60 it could be something I'd look at doing but now it's in I don't think I would ever have to remove the Campag press-fit cups again.

garypremo
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

by garypremo

Here is another link to a retailer selling the CeramicSpeed BB solutions for Colnago Threadfit 82.5. Its the same as the Windwave photo, but it's larger with better resolution.

https://www.7hundred.co.uk/50657/produc ... ckets.aspx

It pictures 3 types of BB's, Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo Ultra Torque. To see the Campagnolo UT BB, you have to scroll to the right (with the arrows or choose the 3rd radio buttons beneath the photo). The Campy one is identifiable because the sealed bearing with the shiny inner surface is visible.

The description does not clear up any of the questions raised above. I submitted a question at the bottom of the page asking whether the price includes the bearings and if so, whether there is an option to purchase only the threaded cups without the bearings (as most buyers would prefer to keep the CULT bearings they already paid for as part of their Ultra Torque crankset). We'll see whether I get a clear reply. I am not holding my breath.

The listed price of 234 British pounds doesn't seem high enough to include the bearings. The CeramicSpeed webshop sells the Campy UT bearing kit (bearings only) for about 260 British pounds.

Also, the CeramicSpeed website has STILL not been updated to include the BB's made for Colnago Thread Fit 82.5

-Gary
2016 Colnago C60 PLWH 61 CM Traditional Geometry

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Calnago
Posts: 6069
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

garypremo wrote: The listed price of 234 British pounds doesn't seem high enough to include the bearings. The CeramicSpeed webshop sells the Campy UT bearing kit (bearings only) for about 260 British pounds.
Seems more than enough to me. It’s two cups that take the place of the Threadfit cups that come installed in the frame. You unscrew the Threadfit cups and screw in the Ceramic speed cups. Threadfit cups are not complicated, maybe $30 tops. So the rest is just justifying the cost of the bearings, which seem kind of comparable to what you might pay for some CULT bearings by themselves (a lot). It’s not a one piece system. There are two cups. There has to be in order to screw into each side of the Colnago BB. The middle part is simply a plastic (maybe alloy) sleeve. You can’t see the Shimano and SRAM bearings simply because of the bearing shield, which Campy doesn’t use. The only question I have is, are those bearings in the Campy cups meant to be pressed onto the Campy spindle in place of the stock bearings, the same as current Campy Ultratorque cranks/bearings. A nice option for Shimano and SRAM users however. And maybe even Chorus and Record users. But for Super Record users, not so much.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

mag
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

I'd expect the installation process to be pretty much like the one shown in the following video (applicable to their other products for the Campy UT cranksets): https://youtu.be/sBUd39dpJ-0
e.g. those bearings are supposed to be replaced as part of the instalation.

I do wonder though whether the bearings are of the same dimensions as the original Campy ones or if they went some proprietary way...
Also I don't expect them to sell the body without the bearings only (even if the bearings would be of the same dimensions as the Campy ones). That isn't the way they operate :-D

EDIT: Full size picture of the BB from the 700 website: https://www.7hundred.co.uk/images/bbcrspd-camp.jpg

c60rider
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:12 pm

by c60rider

Don't see how it makes financial sense to buy that seeing how cheap the Campag cups are. And you'll already have the bearings with the cranks. I don't know how much replacement Colnago threadfit cups are but I'd be surprised if they're more than £50 so with the Campag cups less than £30 you can get 3 sets of those for the price of one Ceramic Speed. There's just really no point.

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