BB 86-4130 Bearings

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lewolive
Posts: 160
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Location: Gien, France
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by lewolive

andrew9 wrote:The price for those ceramic bearings is just crazy, wow.

You could try carefully picking the seals out of the 4130 and flushing and re-greasing. You could even leave the inner seals off, for less drag, but it depends on how well sealed the BB area of the frame is, as to whether that will affect durability.

My lightning BB86 cups, fitted with four $5 ebay metal shielded bearings spin quite nice. They're not as free as a nice old loose ball square taper BB, but about the same as my other bikes Ultegra BB-R60.
I serviced them after 2000 kilometers, as I am concerned about their durability. I had another set of bearings ready to go in, but all four bearings were still very good, just cleaned off and greased the outsides of the shields

There is a discussion on BB86 bearings for 30mm spindles:
viewtopic.php?f=113&t=132784


Thanks for sharing your solution.
The problem for 41/30 is that we need 2 bearings per side, so, a total of 4 bearings per BB. That's twice more than standard BB.
With twice more bearings we may expect twice more friction and that's probably a reason of the bad smoothness of Rotor 41/30 Steel and Gold.
Moreover, BB manufacturers are selling OEM cups at high prices so that ceramic manufacturers need to sell at a higher price the complete BB.
But honestly, when you see coated bearings or jockey wheels in a price range $300-400, a good ceramic 41/30 BB at $250 is a good deal when you know that you can use the best 30mm cranks in the world and take the benefits of stiffness and lightweight. On cyclingceramic BB, we have been observing a life duration longer than 2 years on all the products. That's because there is no compromise on any of the components of these bearings.

by Weenie


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andrew9
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by andrew9

I'm not saying they're not good bearings, It's just a price I could never justify, my bike isn't "cheap" but it's certainly built within a budget. I think my used cranks cost about the same as those bearings.

Sorry, I didn't mean to question your pricing, just my ability to afford them

lewolive
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by lewolive

andrew9 wrote:I'm not saying they're not good bearings, It's just a price I could never justify, my bike isn't "cheap" but it's certainly built within a budget. I think my used cranks cost about the same as those bearings.

Sorry, I didn't mean to question your pricing, just my ability to afford them


Yes I understand :wink: I also admit that good steel bearings can reduce the gap between ceramic and steel and I like your solution.

But let me know, the Lightning crank is expensive, like $700 ? My idea is to have components in the same line of performance and price.
It'd not make sense to use ceramic 41/30 at $250 on a Rotor 3D30 at $350. In that case, I'd buy 3d24 at $300 + 41/24 ceramic bearings (around $150), that's by far a better combo in terms of performance/price.

The last thing is that the highest velocity you have, the more you'll save with using ceramic bearings. So, strong athletes save more watts than the others with using aero wheels... but on bearings, 2 people riding at the same velocity, one at 200W and the other at 400W, they will save the same amount of watts.
That's why the gain in % is more impressive at a low wattage than at a high wattage.
Let's buy good ceramic bearings instead of aero wheels if you start training.

Timujin
Posts: 347
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:43 pm

by Timujin

Ceramic Speed are going to release a PF4130.... I cannot wait to change... The rotor ceramic 4130 is poor.


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Timujin
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by Timujin

How is everyone removing these Bottom Brackets?? which tools are you using?

lewolive
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by lewolive

For my Cyclinceramic 46/30 I use BB30 BBT-30.3 (Parktool)

Very easy installation with standard pressfit tools, and removing the BB is fast, easy.

No creaking observed. It looks as much precise and easy to service than a BSA.

andrew9
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:01 am

by andrew9

To remove, I use a cut off bit of PVC, very gently tap around the inside of the BB with the flared end against the bearing cup (only lightly, don't let the big hammer fool you)
The press is the equivalent a pair of wide washers and a bolt, but mine is from a bearing install kit I have for Automotive wheel bearings, and a clamp stud for a Milling machine.



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Omiar
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

Regular Rotor 4130 is not very well greased and therefore tends to have a short lifespan. Regreasing in doable, it is better to remove the inner plastic race to do that, but after that it takes about 5 minutes more to set the balls at a proper gap from each other. I don't see any "magic" in Rotor seals, they seems like typical automative ball bearing seals.
If there is exessive draf with a new bearing, you should check the preload first.
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tnc1970
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by tnc1970

Word is that Rotor ceramics are made by CeramicSpeed. Anyway, I'm using them and cannot complain

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

tnc1970 wrote:Word is that Rotor ceramics are made by CeramicSpeed. Anyway, I'm using them and cannot complain


That would be something! Would that be same as standard CS, talking balls and races?

When i asked Rotor direct, they did not recommend ceramic bearings.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

lewolive
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by lewolive

This is the BB86 that I use for my Canyon and Rotor Inpower crank.

Smoothness is amazing and has not changed at all after a few rainy rides.
I still have not serviced them with the grease included, I'll do it probably after 6 months of use.

All the components of these cyclingceramic bearings are made with care in USA or Europe. IAM cycling and Orica are riding 41/24 and jockey wheels this year.

On the Rotor BB issues, I completely agree. All Rotor cranks are fantastic products, well engineered, durable, lightweight, and powermeters are very durable and precise.
BUT
I have tried all the line of BB and they are all poor in terms of smoothness and durability: BSA, BSA30, 46/30, 41/30... all of them had a life of less than 3 months on my bike and smoothness was acceptable on BSA24, BSA30 and 41/24 only.

I'll post a video next week of the smootness of my crank with these bearings. It's not serious to buy an expensive crank without smooth and durable bearings. It's a better deal to buy a crank in the middle of the line + quality bearings instead of high end crank + poor bearings.
Attachments
4130.jpg

alexhem
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by alexhem

Any chance of you posting that video soon lewolive? Struggeling with a Rotor 4130 bearing + Rotor 3D+ combo in my Canyon Ultimate CF SLX.

lewolive
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by lewolive

Oh yes, the video is there : https://www.facebook.com/veloperso/vide ... =2&theater


There are 3 good news:
-This product is in stock
-The price lowered to 190€ instead of 249€
-I'm still riding with it without any sign of loosing any smoothness or creaking (I would have used already 2 Rotor steel BB for the same mileage and at the first time to grease we'll be probably at 3 or 5 ...)

On the video, please note that the crank is lightweight, pedals too... With an Ultegra cranks and basic pedals it would spin maybe 10 more laps...

highdraw

by highdraw

lewolive wrote:
andrew9 wrote:I'm not saying they're not good bearings, It's just a price I could never justify, my bike isn't "cheap" but it's certainly built within a budget. I think my used cranks cost about the same as those bearings.

Sorry, I didn't mean to question your pricing, just my ability to afford them


Yes I understand :wink: I also admit that good steel bearings can reduce the gap between ceramic and steel and I like your solution.

But let me know, the Lightning crank is expensive, like $700 ? My idea is to have components in the same line of performance and price.
It'd not make sense to use ceramic 41/30 at $250 on a Rotor 3D30 at $350. In that case, I'd buy 3d24 at $300 + 41/24 ceramic bearings (around $150), that's by far a better combo in terms of performance/price.

The last thing is that the highest velocity you have, the more you'll save with using ceramic bearings. So, strong athletes save more watts than the others with using aero wheels... but on bearings, 2 people riding at the same velocity, one at 200W and the other at 400W, they will save the same amount of watts.
That's why the gain in % is more impressive at a low wattage than at a high wattage.
Let's buy good ceramic bearings instead of aero wheels if you start training.

Are you trying to shill your BB's here on WW's? Aside from irrelevancy due to weight savings, I'm trying to make sense of what you write because you constantly contradict yourself and are wrong on many levels...from equating spin tests to actual reduction in riding friction to watts saved to increased bearing longevity after rides in the rain to equating the cost of a BB relative to the cost of a given crank. To me you are full of BS and your bearings are stupid expensive.
There isn't a single watt difference between your bearings and properly set up BB30 with ABEC-3 bearings at $7 each. A fool and his money. The only thing you wrote that is accurate is your tests are far from scientific and that is a fact.

To expose your BS as bogus, for example, show me the scientific test that proves what you wrote that "2 people riding at the same velocity, one at 200W and the other at 400W...that premise is almost impossible btw...they will save the same kind of watts. I probably have never read a greater fabrication on the internet. Lets see your test data to support this bogus claim. This is flawed on so many different levels.
Quit writing what you have no idea what you are talking about or you will be called out on it.

lewolive
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:10 pm
Location: Gien, France
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by lewolive

There isn't a single watt difference between your bearings and properly set up BB30 with ABEC-3 bearings at $7 each. A fool and his money. The only thing you wrote that is accurate is your tests are far from scientific and that is a fact


There are some tests planned with friction facts in the next months.

On your side you're not serious, you try to make something (BB30) a generality. Do you know the specificity of the 41/30 ?
Can you provide me a good 41/30 with 2 Abec-3 bearings for 2*$7 ?

On durability, have you ever ridden Rotor 41/30 steel ? I'm saying that a good ceramic bearing is more economical than steel. I don't need to measure it in a lab, just need to see that the price of 4 steel bearings I can buy a ceramic, and at the end I still have a good BB, not 4 rusty BB.

We are here on a forum, I'm speaking about products that I ride and that I sell. You are speaking about theory only. The video is not a proof, it's a beginning of proof that owners of standard 41/30 BB can view and compare with what they have. If customers are unhappy with the quality of the product, they can return it and get a refund. My experience is not based on one product, it's based on dozens of bearings and dozens of Rotor cranks.

by Weenie


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