Poor shifting performance with Extralite Octaramp?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Synnove
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:45 pm
Location: PDX

by Synnove

Let me just say that Extralite's hyperstem and QRC2 crankset are quite nice, though somewhat flexy (I weigh 115lb/53kg so that doesn't concern me too much).

I purchased the 34/50 octaramp chainrings to go with the crankset, and have had nothing but problems with them. They are being used with a Dura Ace 9000 setup, and the chain refuses to move to the big ring unless the front derailer swings so far out, it rubs on the chain when on the small ring. The rings have no pins and the ramps seem to be ineffective.

Is there some secret I'm missing in regards to getting proper function out of these rings?
Last edited by Synnove on Sun May 24, 2015 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

I don't know that crank you speak of, do you mean QRC-2?
http://www.extralite.com/Products/qrc%202.htm

Have you mailed Extralite and asked them?

A bit weird, I was told no-one complained on this setup, still i was recommended not to buy it, which i didn't.

However there was a guy who mentioned he used QRC-2 and i think he was OK with them!? Not sure though..
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Qman
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:55 pm

by Qman

My Extralite RC2 chainrings work very well with Dura Ace 7900. Shouldn't be a problem with Dura Ace 9000.

I don't understand your statement: "the chain refuses to move to the big ring unless the front derailer swings so far out, it rubs on the chain when on the small ring". Are you talking about the angle of the cage relative to the chainrings? The flat part of the outer cage should be parallel to the face of the chain rings. Or, are you talking about the position of the inside limit screw? That shouldn't influence whether or not the chain gets up on the big ring.

You shouldn't need any special setup. I would suggest going to the Shimano installation instructions and follow them carefully.

steventran
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:31 pm

by steventran

I have the RC2 Octaramp rings on a SRAM Red 22 setup. I've thrown the chain over the large chainring several times. I adjusted it and then had trouble getting the chain on--noisy affair when shifting up that would get everyone's attention. I've been able to get the chain on a little more quickly after further adjustment, but I'll still throw the chain over the large ring now and then. Extremely frustrating and a little embarrassing considering the groupset is brand new. I'm considering putting the stock SRAM rings on, but they're so ugly (and heavy).


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JasonL
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:37 pm

by JasonL

I have the OctaRamp CH-2 with sram red cranks and force front derailleur. I had issues getting it to shift up to the big ring as well. Being that this was my first build, I chalked it up to user error and after tons of adjustment I was finally able to get it to shift up to the big ring on my work stand. I took it out for a quick spin and couldn't get it to shift up at all and put it back on the stand for further adjustment. After pulling the shift cable with pliers and applying extreme cable tension, it now finally works but seems to take a few moments for it to catch on the big ring. Good to know I am not the only one that is having poor performance with these rings.

mdeth1313
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Location: Dutchess County, NY

by mdeth1313

I've been using their chainrings for several years now. I had issues with the original version (gold) but the black ones have worked without issue. I run a WW setup for my drivetrain so it's a mix- FD is a tuned campy record, RD is tuned Sram Red (10 sp), cranks were lightning but are now clavicula and chain has always been kmc x10sl. The current rings are at least 2 years old, probably closer to 3 and they still shift without issue.
Speedplay is the devil!

Synnove
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:45 pm
Location: PDX

by Synnove

Qman wrote:I don't understand your statement: "the chain refuses to move to the big ring unless the front derailer swings so far out, it rubs on the chain when on the small ring". Are you talking about the angle of the cage relative to the chainrings?

The shifting lever has four positions and will pull the cable a certain length as one moves from the first position to the last (with the first two being small ring, last two big ring of course). Assuming the limit screws are at their max, in order to get the chain on the big ring I need to pull enough cable to get the derailer almost far enough right to start rubbing the crank arm (the QRC2s have a rather low Q Factor). However, when I move the shifter back down to the small ring on first indexed position, the derailer rubs slightly on the chain because there is no more cable the shifter can release. If I use a barrel adjuster to compensate for this by giving the derailer more cable, and eliminating the rub, when I shift in to position 3 and 4 the chain refuses to climb to the big ring and just slips. I attribute this to the lack of pins and inadequate ramp design.

I did have this setup working on a different frame at one but, but even then the chain took a long, noisy time to mount the big ring because it just wouldn't catch. Suffice to say I was very disappointed that my shift quality worsened considerably moving from an old 6500 crankset & rings to the Extralite rings.

Have sourced some Shimano R700 rings to hopefully return my sanity.

mdeth1313
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Location: Dutchess County, NY

by mdeth1313

...or it could be your setup (angle of the FD).
Speedplay is the devil!

Synnove
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:45 pm
Location: PDX

by Synnove

While that is certainly a possibility, I like to think I covered all the possible permutations after several hours of messing with it.

I'll be installing bar-end shifters tomorrow (which, for the FD, are friction operated) which will involve re-cabling/adjusting the FD. If the problem persists after that I'll have to write to Extralite.

adrianlmp1246
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:32 am
Location: UCSF

by adrianlmp1246

Hello Synnove.
I understand perfectly, when you say "the chain refuses to move to the big ring unless the front derailer swings so far out"
I run my octaramp 34/50 rings on lightning crank and a Sram Red 22 set up. At first, i had big problems shifting up front using the stock cable and housing provided by sram, but after I made the change to the Alligator system, the problem has stopped. In my case I messed with the FD for hours to get it working right, but in the end I ended up taking it to my master mechanic to get it working perfectly. try different cable and housing, it wouldn't hurt.

quick question, are you wring the older 84g version or the newer 94g ones?

Synnove
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:45 pm
Location: PDX

by Synnove

The housing was swapped out today when I installed bar end shifters, and the problem persisted. It certainly could be due to my frame's routing of the derailer cable; it routes through the wheel cut out tube. I was able to procure a 165mm Shimano R700 today for a bargain, and as soon as I got that thing installed the shifting became perfect and instant. Even when I had the octaramp's working on an older frame, they were still very noisy, had trouble shifting under load, and delayed the jump of the chain, so I'm just going to stick with the Shimano rings and crankset for now (Extralite doesn't sell a 165 crankset unfortunately, so my current 172.5 version will have to be sold).

They are less than 3 months old, so the 98 gram version.

adrianlmp1246
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:32 am
Location: UCSF

by adrianlmp1246

My Extralit Rings had problems shifting with my BB30 Chinese and BB30 CAAD frames, but shifted Amazingly, with no problems what so ever, on my S-Works Tarmac and C60 frames. The only problems I used to have, before I sorted it out, on my chinese and CAAD frames was that the chain wouldn't make the jump. I never had trouble shifting under load or had a noisy drivetrain because of them. I have Sram Yaw on both my BB30 frames, and the lines on my FD that are suppose to match up with the center of the chaining teeth don't, but it was the only way to make the FD shift properly. I am puzzled on why your modern rings work with your setup.

mdeth1313
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Location: Dutchess County, NY

by mdeth1313

Sram FD's could be the problem. I had nothing but issues when I attempted to use their little piggies on my WW bike. I've had much better shifting w/ campy chorus and record FD's.
Speedplay is the devil!

Qman
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:55 pm

by Qman

I still don't understand why the shifting would be great on 7900 and poor on 9000.
The 9000 front derailleur is definitely a very different design and it requires careful setup. It sounds like you've already spent a lot of time on this, and perhaps you've already carefully followed all the installation instructions, but just in case you haven't, it looks like there are a couple of areas that are typically not properly setup on these derailleurs.

1. Support bolt and backup plate. If you have a braze-on FD then make sure the backup plate is there and the support bolt is touching the plate.
2. Cable Angle. Use the tool to establish the position for the converter. This compensates for the cable exit point on your frame.
3. Cable wrap at the pinch bolt. There are many ways to wrap the cable, and Shimano indicate the correct way for your particular setup.
4. Cable Tension. Adjust this in the top trim position (the first click down on the big ring), and with the chain in the big-big combination. The inner FD plate should be between 0 and 0.5mm from touching the chain. Increase the tension a little if you're still having difficulties getting onto the big ring.

This derailleur needs lots of cable tension, similar to the SRAM yaw. In contrast, the FD-7900 requires a slack cable!

Here is an interesting link regarding setup problems with the FD-9000: http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/03/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-shimano-11-speed-front-derailleur-cable-setup_363733

If none of this helps then it must be a problem of compatibility with the rings. They are nice rings and they save some weight, but it's not worth it if they simply don't shift up!

by Weenie


steventran
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:31 pm

by steventran

For what it's worth, I run my rings with AICAN cables and housing. As described above, the shifting blows.

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