Weight Weenies

What is considered the lightest of the true aero framesets of today?
Also, what is the most comfortable (which does not ride harsh)?

Thanks!

You might get some info here. However, some new frames have probably come out in the last year
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=123175

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german tour mag compared all the latest aero frames. buy the internation version on apple store for the ipad.

lightest frameset felt ar
most aero with zipp 404 felt ar
overall canyon

giant propel advanced sl scored best in ride comfort/stiffness

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Regarding the Tour aerodynamic tests, I would recommend taking them as at best only very roughly accurate.

The wind tunnel they use is not adequate to properly compare aero road frames; the test section is too small vertically to properly determine drag with a rider dummy as they did. Typically wind tunnel testing requires a test section several times larger than the object tested for reasonable accuracy in drag prediction. Also, given that it's an open tunnel, even weather/temperature/time of day could skew the results by enough to predict one frame as being faster than another when that is not the case.

That being said, I truly appreciate their philosophy of actually testing manufacturers' aero claims; I think it's laudable how far they go to examine bike performance.

From the GST in Immenstaad's webpage, the tunnel diagram:

Doesn't matter tunnel. doesn't matter procedure, nothing really matters in their tests , except 1 thing : German frame has to be winner , again

I don't say Canyon is "bad bike" , just express thoughts after seeing several various tests of "tour" .

Do you consider the kamm tail aero frames to be "true aero"? E.g. Trek madone or Scott foil?

eric01, great question. I've read and been told both that they are and also been told that they are not.
I don't really know how i can answer that, i don't find i have means to contradict any of the claims.
I have owned a Scott Foil and i did not really like the ride feel of it.
I took a long time for me to grasp that it came down to the frame.
I guess Look 795 could also be considered a true aero frame if Foil and Madone is!?
I also guess 795 is more comfortable, though i am not sure i like the massive integration of Looks recent frames.

"True aero" is pretty subjective IMO, but I'd say any frame designed with aerodynamics being (one of) the main focus would be considered an aero frame. Kamm tails tend to actually perform really well, and can beat airfoils in certain conditions. It also allows manufacturers to extend the "virtual airfoil" and still comply with the 3:1 rule. There is a reason the cars with the highest fuel economy are all shaped pretty much the same in the back (Prius, etc.)

Haha, true. If you're already biased, a good wind tunnel doesn't help I guess.

As ITTY said, "true aero" is pretty subjective. For bike speeds and sizes, based on some CFD studies I've done (adjoint-based adapted mesh, finite element research code, for the engineers/fellow aero nerds here) you tend to gain about 20-50% drag for a well-designed Kammtail versus airfoil depending on crosswinds. They're useful mostly for structural reasons or (in the case of the vast majority of bike companies) if you don't have particularly well-designed airfoils. They're also beneficial for slower speeds (<15-20 mph, depending on wind), but I know that doesn't apply to any of us here.

Cervelo's S series, Giant's Propels, and Felt's AR series are all pretty similar in terms of aerodynamics, and do a fair amount better than others currently on the market. Everybody else is noticeably (5+ watts on average at least) worse aerodynamically, whether purposefully for handling/weight reasons or simply because they can't design for aerodynamics well enough.

wheelsONfire - I'm thinking about a Foil. What didn't you like about it? Cheeers.

liam7020 wrote:wheelsONfire - I'm thinking about a Foil. What didn't you like about it? Cheeers.

In short, it is a harsh ride. Especially if you ride a bit longer.

stormur wrote:Doesn't matter tunnel. doesn't matter procedure, nothing really matters in their tests , except 1 thing : German frame has to be winner , again

I don't say Canyon is "bad bike" , just express thoughts after seeing several various tests of "tour" .

I live in Germany and yes.....Tour is indeed very well know for this
The results for German products (Cannyon, Stork, LW, etc...) are always "slightly" overestimated but this is business
The only question is how much is "slightly"

Kristoff made that Canyon look good this week.

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wheelsONfire wrote:

liam7020 wrote:wheelsONfire - I'm thinking about a Foil. What didn't you like about it? Cheeers.

In short, it is a harsh ride. Especially if you ride a bit longer.

Bollocks. I had countless centuries as well as 200, 300 and 400 mile rides on both of mine. If you're worried about comfort just run some 25-28mm rubber and lower pressure.