Colnago C59 tyre clearance?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Harmitc
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:56 pm

by Harmitc

I have a late C59 and a C60. My C59 has clearance as above, but the C60 fork which has a different shape to the outer surfaces has the increased dimensions between fork crown and tyre. It's easy to tell the difference between the forks from the outer profile. Sorry the bungs have got to go!!

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

Calnago wrote:Next time I work on my friend's 2014 C59 (with the C60 fork) I'll get some pics showing the clearance there with similar tires... 23mm, 25mm, tubulars, and clinchers.
I am running 25mm Arenbergs on Bora Ultra Two's. The clearance is very tight but it doesn't touch, just every little thing the tires pick gets jammed through there. Not a big issue on clean dry roads, but I don't always ride on clean dry roads... So, I have the 24mm Veloflex Roubaixs that are a perfect size for this frame. Adequate clearance and a nice stable ride.

@Sastre, yes that rear clearance is the same as mine, but it's the clearance under the fork that is my main issue with 25mm tires.
@fa63, it's more the height of the tire profile that is the issue as opposed to the width. Plenty of clearance width wise.



You just convinced me. I'm sticking with 23 mm tires.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

TimW
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Location: England, UK

by TimW

So I know this isn't strictly related to this topic..but along the same lines. Toying with the new wide Bora35 clinchers next year.

What do you think the chances of are running them on a very early 2010 C59 are..it's not like I will be able to see a pair to test. I know people here have run Zipp Firecrests on the same frame so my guess is OK? Opinions?

TIA

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Calnago
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by Calnago

I suspect if you run them with 23mm clinchers you'll be just fine. 25's may be getting a little dicy. The width isn't an issue. It's the height, especially under the fork.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

TimW
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Location: England, UK

by TimW

Thank you Calnago. I usually run Corsa CX 23mm so could do the same. Am unsure as the new rim is 24.2 wide?

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tabmaster
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by tabmaster

Hey all, I've been reading this thread with interest. What do we think is the widest tub one could sensibly (no just) get away with? 24mm?

Paul.
If the grand tours are like classical music, kermesse racing is punkrock, Belgian style.
Colnago C50, Campag SR11

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eurperg
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Location: Finland

by eurperg

I'm using 25mm Veloflex tubs with plenty of clearance...(~2,5-3mm) Somehow my 2012 frame seems to have better clearance than what other people are reporting. I can check the clearance with Conti gp4000s 25mm clinchers and post pics later...

thp
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by thp

2012 C59,
25mm GP4000S II on HED Belgiums have like 1.5mm clearance.
24mm Open Corsa SR have like 3mm clearance.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ok, today I had access to a set of Enve Smart 3.4's and took advantage to test some various scenarios with different wheels, tires and frames.

With a 25mm Continental 4000s II mounted to a front Enve rim, they will not fit in my C59 and spin. The tire hits the fork crown. Definite no go... 23's would be the way to go with this wide rim. That exact same tire mounted on the normal width Campy Neutron rim, will fit, but here is very little clearance.

Ok, now if you have one of the newer C59's with the C60 fork (it's easy to tell the difference), the Enve rim with the 25mm Conti will now at least fit in and spin, but I would definitely not recommend it. There is paper thin clearance between the tire and the fork crown. That same tire on the Campy Neutron fits fine and there is enough clearance that I wouldn't worry about running it at all.

On the tubular side, I have been running 25mm Veloflex Roubaixs, Arrenbergs, or Continental Comps all with the same clearance. Which is a little more than the Neutron/Conti 4000 25mm clincher combo but still fairly minimal. I do it, but wouldn't do it on roads with a lot of debris or chipseal. The ideal tubular size in my opinion is 24mm for the pre C60 fork frames. If you have one of the C60 forks, then a 25mm tubular is fine. It's 25mm clinchers on wide rims that become problematic.

I'll also point out that some people who think they have 25mm Veloflex Roubaixs may in fact be the 24mm version. There was an overlap period where Roubaixs with the 24mm casing had the new labels. I got some of these when I started to try the 25's. When I got them they didn't seem any different than the 24's. Because they weren't. The distributor didn't realize this either till I brought it up. We measured and I was sent the 25's, only to find out that the 24's were my preferred size for my frames. Argh!. So I bought out his remaining four sets of 24mm Roubaixs with the new label. Unfortunately, Veloflex doesn't mark whether they are 22, 23, 24 or 25mm... no big deal if you know the various names and what they are. But for a while you really had to check whether you had a 24 or a 25mm tire since the labels were identical.

Ok... having said that, here is what the underside of my fork looks like after running the Campy Bora Ultra Twos with 25mm Arrenbergs for a while. Yes it gets scratched but not unbearably so. You ride your bike, it gets scratched, especially there. It's more annoying to have to listen to all the crap that gets thrown through there.
Image
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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tabmaster
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Location: England, occiasionally Flanders.

by tabmaster

Ace, I'll either look at getting some NOS 24mm veloflex or more likely vittoria 24mm corsa SL. Does a wider rim somehow add to the height then?
If the grand tours are like classical music, kermesse racing is punkrock, Belgian style.
Colnago C50, Campag SR11

TimW
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by TimW

Thanks for the detailed post Calnago :D

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Calnago
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by Calnago

You're welcome. @Tabmaster: Yes, all else equal the same clincher tire will sit higher on a wider rim than a narrower rim. Some have a hard time with this concept. It's because the tire no longer is forced into that hourglass shape from the bead... Instead of going out sideways from the head before curving around the top, the tire goes in more of a straight up direction from the bead and this makes for a slightly larger overall profile.
My C50 has more clearance than my C59.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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tabmaster
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by tabmaster

Ah, now you've explained that concept it is quite clear! However, I exclusively run tubulars. I normally have a pair of 23mm vittoria cx on boras in my C59 - I'm currently building a pair of deep section gigantex rims on to royce hubs for Mrs Tabmaster to race in next year but I'd also like to try them out myself in my C59, hence the enquiry. She's quite taken with the 24mm vittoria pavé she's got in her frame at the moment & would like to try 25mm & dare I say it, so would I!
I was exceptionally taken with the suppleness of the casing on the veloflex I saw on Froome's Pinarello, even more supple than vittoria.

Paul.
If the grand tours are like classical music, kermesse racing is punkrock, Belgian style.
Colnago C50, Campag SR11

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Calnago
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by Calnago

The problem with Vittorias, at least for me, is their propensity to cut just from looking at them it seems. I used to run the Corsa EVO CX Open clinchers and they would cut all the time. Switched to Conti 4000s and much more robuts. These days I pretty much run Veloflex tubulars exclusively. And I'm thinking that even if I had scads of clearance, the 24mm profile might be my favorite... best combination of road feel and comfort for the bigger guys. Still not convinced that the 25's are any faster than a 23, but they are more comfortable for sure. I am looking forward to seeing if the tubulars sit any lower on the new Campy Bora rims coming out soon due to what I expect will be a larger radius rim bed at least to better accommodate the wider tires.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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eurperg
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by eurperg

Only 1mm clearance with GP 4000s 25mm mounted on Aksium rim. (1,5mm allen key fits but touches). They are definitely taller than Arenberg 25mm. I see 25mm clinchers on wide rims would be a no-go...

But I would just put a 1mm shim to fork dropouts to get over the problem an go riding...

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