11 Speed Di2 Front Shifting Troubles

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

I am having trouble getting the front shifting on a new 6870 group dialed in on my Madone. Rear shifting works great. If I set it up by the dealer manual, the high limit is too tight to allow shifting with any kind of force on the pedals. If I loosen the high limit, shifting seems to get better on the inside and outside of the cassette, but the middle seems to suffer. I have tried to ride around with a 2mm hex in my pocket and let it out a little bit at a time, but one section of the cassette will get better, another will get worse.

Right now it is sitting at a height of 1.75 mm, perfectly parallel to the chainring. The support bolt is firmly seated against the braze-on. The low limit is let out just enough to eliminate noise, and the upper limit is let out to around 2.5mm away from the chain. It is still not throwing the chain, but it is not always a clean shift like you read about with Di2. I have also adjusted the top electrical adjustment as stated in the manual.

Any ideas on how to get this dialed in? Tricks/Tips/etc?

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keith
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:38 pm
Location: North Wales
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by keith

Just follow the Shimano instructions. Mine works very well. (DA 9080)

Basically put the chain on the inner rings (front and rear) set the inner adjustment to the correct distance from the chain (1mm, can't really remember) with the (L) limit screw.

Move the chain to the outer rings, (front and rear), set the distance from the cage to the chain to the right distance (1.5mm?) with the other (H) limit screw.

Job done. Much simpler than mechanical!

Long time since I did it though, so may have forgotten something important !!

Not sure why you mention cassette when asking about front shifting though… The cassette on most bikes is on the back wheel ;-)
Riding my road bike in North Wales

http://www.strava.com/athletes/keith_robertson

by Weenie


goodboyr
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Location: Canada

by goodboyr

Can you take some closeup pictures? That might help our diagnosis.

LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

keith wrote:Just follow the Shimano instructions. Mine works very well. (DA 9080)

Basically put the chain on the inner rings (front and rear) set the inner adjustment to the correct distance from the chain (1mm, can't really remember) with the (L) limit screw.

Move the chain to the outer rings, (front and rear), set the distance from the cage to the chain to the right distance (1.5mm?) with the other (H) limit screw.

Job done. Much simpler than mechanical!

Long time since I did it though, so may have forgotten something important !!

Not sure why you mention cassette when asking about front shifting though… The cassette on most bikes is on the back wheel ;-)


Setting up strictly by the dealer manual is not working, hence the post. I have followed it exactly with poor results.

I mentioned the cassette because position in the rear (cassette) is directly affecting the front shifting performance.

LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

goodboyr wrote:Can you take some closeup pictures? That might help our diagnosis.


I will take some pictures and post back. Thanks

goodboyr
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Location: Canada

by goodboyr

I just noted that you have the support bolt bearing against the braze on. On some bikes tue braze on material is very soft and the bolt indents into the material causing movement of the FD under force. Cervelos have this issue for example. Try using the aluminum plate stuck to the impact point of the bolt against the brazeon.

LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

Here are a few pictures. Note that this is how it is currently set up. This is not the "by the manual" setup. If I set it up by the manual, you cannot shift in the front with really any force on the pedals. As soon as you ease up it will ramp on the big ring. Easing out the high limit resolves this, but I still am not able to get the front shifting smooth in all situations. I will get a pretty sloppy shift maybe 1 in 3 or 4 times.

Height
Image

High Limit
Image

Low Limit
Image

LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

goodboyr wrote:I just noted that you have the support bolt bearing against the braze on. On some bikes tue braze on material is very soft and the bolt indents into the material causing movement of the FD under force. Cervelos have this issue for example. Try using the aluminum plate stuck to the impact point of the bolt against the brazeon.


I actually tried that on the first install, and did not see much of a difference. I called Trek and they suggest not using the plate. Thanks for the suggestion.

goodboyr
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Location: Canada

by goodboyr

I wouldnt trust trek. I've had to reinstall a 9000 FD that was completely botched up on a brand new madone 7.
I can't see your pics.

goodboyr
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Location: Canada

by goodboyr

And your crank and bb is ok? In particular you've got no play down there right?

LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

goodboyr wrote:I wouldnt trust trek. I've had to reinstall a 9000 FD that was completely botched up on a brand new madone 7.
I can't see your pics.


I have tried it both ways with no luck. I will put it back on again and see.

Can you get to the following URLs?

Height
http://s21.postimg.org/b76lj62g6/P1010793.jpg

High Limit
http://s21.postimg.org/q1v6xcc12/P1010797.jpg

Low Limit
http://s21.postimg.org/m81qo6up2/P1010806.jpg

LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

goodboyr wrote:And your crank and bb is ok? In particular you've got no play down there right?


No play at all. Crank and Cassette are Dura-Ace 9000, rest is 6800/6870.

goodboyr
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Location: Canada

by goodboyr

It doesn't look totally parallel. I run my finger along the chain ring and outer surface of derailleur to make sure its parallel. As well, make sure the initial install without the support bolt wound in has the FD angled in. That way when you tighten the bolt, the FD will move into being parallel and you can be sure you've got solid support. As well, I see you've got a chain keeper. Can you try the install without the chain keeper using the original shimano bolt? Some chain keepers come with a smaller bolt that doesn't have the same stiffness and ability to torque properly. The symptoms you are experiencing are consistent with the FD having a slight bit of play under force.
Last edited by goodboyr on Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

goodboyr wrote:No pics. You need a photo sharing site like flickr


Ya, I used postimg.org. Weird that I can see them and you cannot. Try this one:

Height
Image

Hight Limit
Image

Low Limit
Image

by Weenie


LoggingMiles
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm

by LoggingMiles

goodboyr wrote:It doesn't look totally parallel. I run my finger along the chain ring and outer surface of derailleur to make sure its parallel. As well, make sure the initial install without the support bolt wound in has the FD angled in. That way when you tighten the bolt, the FD will move into being parallel and you can be sure you've got solid support. As well, I see you've got a chain keeper. Can you try the install without the chain keeper using the original shimano bolt? Some chain keepers come with a smaller bolt that doesn't have the same stiffness and ability to torque properly. The symptoms you are experiencing are consistent with the FD having a slight bit of play under force.


Does it look toe-in or toe-out to you? Looks dead parallel in person, might be the pics.

I will try without the chain keeper.

Does the height look OK to you? Or would you lower it closer to 1mm? It is around 1.75mm at the moment.

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