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Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:19 pm
by OwenJames
Hey

I have asked this before a long time ago, and got no real answer, but as more people may have got the DA9000 now, I thought I would ask again.

On my Cannondale Evo, I have a DA9000 fd which I fitted myself.

Part of fitting is putting a small flat square of metal on the seat tube for a grub screw in the fd to push against.

On the Evo, there does not appear to be a good place to put this as the fd mount is in the way.

How is anybody else with an Evo and DA9000 dealing with this?

Also, if anybody has seen or owns a complete Evo that came with DA9000, how are Cannondale dealing with this? Are they just leaving it off, or do they have it at a weird angle or something?

Thanks

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:08 pm
by Roundabout
I have a 2012 EVO Hi Mod on which I installed a 6800 FD. My solution was to place the flat plate (it comes with both a flat plate and a contoured plate) on top of the braze on, so that it creates a straight line across the curved concave part. Shifts brilliantly and have had zero issues

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:18 pm
by OwenJames
Thanks. Any chance of a photo?

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:09 am
by goodboyr
I did an install recently. Evo himod, di2 9070, compact cranks. Didn't use the plate at all. Let the screw bear against the FD mount. Its just as solid as the plate. Works fine.

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:37 am
by oreoboreo
is this what you are looking for?

Image

Image

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:48 am
by Doolop
The plate is only for frames that the screw would land against the carbon frame. You have no need for it.

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:11 am
by OwenJames
@oreoboreo;

Thanks a lot for the photos and feedback.

On my frame, when the front mech is in the correct position, when I screw the grub screw in, it misses the fd mount completely and hits the carbon steerer tube. My frame is 2012, and yours is 2013, so I am wondering if there was a design change to the fd mount between 2012 and 2013 to deal with the new DA9000 that came out between Evo versions. I see in your sig that you have both the 2012 and the 2013 Evo; would you be able to compare the fd mounts and let me know if they are indeed different?

Regarding the metal plate in general; nothing in the manual says that it is optional. Also, setting the grub screw directly against the fd mount is going to scratch it up.

Again, appreciate everyone taking the time to post. Very helpful!

I would still like to know how the DA9000 specced complete bikes come assembled direct from Cannondale... does anybody have any info on this?

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:36 pm
by oreoboreo
Sorry, my 2012 is in Hawaii and I am not. I am sure there is someone here with the set up that you have.

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:47 pm
by Svetty
On my 2012 frame the grub screw abuts onto the mech braze-on mount (52 tooth ring). Doesn't mark it significantly as there should be no relative movement between the tip of the screw and the mount. There shouldn't be much load going through the screw or this would generate a rotational force on the main mech mount, just enough force to brace the mech against the mount.

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:22 pm
by TheDoc
My 2013 Evo DA didn't come with the plate installed and it's been fine. The screw is pretty far into the FD so it's nowhere close to hitting the braze on mount. Cannondale did packed the plates along with my manual and other small bits, though.

Image

Image

Hope this helps

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:40 pm
by Calnago
@TheDoc: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that since the grub screw is way in the derailleur and it's not coming close to the frame, that's a good thing. The whole idea of that screw is for it to butt up against either the derailleur tab plate, or the supplied plates from Shimano that can stick on to the seattube. It provides more support and hence, better shifting.

@OwenJames: I've experienced the exact same thing on a Cannondale Evo that you're experiencing. Not my bike but a friend's who got it built up but then wanted me to look at it because the front shifting was off. The elliptical cross section of Cannondales' seattube can make getting that grub screw to do it's job without gouging the seat tube a bit difficult, if it even makes contact at all. My friend has been riding his without issue since I reset the whole front derailleur (except for that screw) and says it shifts great, but it bugs me that the screw isn't against something to provide even better shifting. He didn't have the little plates that shimano provides (a curved one and a flat one), so I got them both and when we get a chance I'll be reinstalling his front derailleur "properly" and somehow I will get that screw to do it's job. Someone else in this thread said he used both of the plates I believe, which is a great idea. Like so many bike things, each situation can be a little bit different. Once I see my friends' Evo again I'll decide which, or if both plates, will do the job.

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:22 pm
by OwenJames
Thanks again!

So, Cannondale themselves do not utilise the supporting grub screw, yet still specs DA9000 with the bike. Amazing. This means the front mech on an Evo is not running 100% as it should be in terms of performance!

I have since created a fix to this. I put the curved plate on at a weird angle, where the grub screw hits it, then put some black electrical tape round it. I then put a thin cable tie around the seat tube to further secure it.

I am pretty unhappy about this - 400,000yen frame, 150,000yen groupset, and I have to resort to sticky tape and DIY to get it to work. Ridiculous.

I am blaming Shimano for this. When they designed this wacky system, why did they not stop and think for a second that it might not fit certain frames. And hell, the Evo is a super popular flagship from a MAJOR manufacturer which is used by the pros, and was out before DA9000 was released.

Add to this the crap with 9001, the snapping cassette, the other front mech issues, and all the other stuff that is wrong with it, and I am seriously going off Shimano.

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:24 am
by TheDoc
@Calnago, No that's not what I meant. I was just saying mine came like that and the bike's been running fine. I didn't know that screw is supposed to do that. But thanks for pointing it out anyway. Will definitely give my FD a look over.

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:27 am
by TheDarkInstall
Hi,

I was having the exact same issue as the OP.

I tried contacting Cannondale but they simply ignored my emails. I have a 2012 SuperSix Evo which I upgraded to Dura Ace 9000.

Well, I was on Facebook one day last month, speaking to someone on the Cannondale page about this issue. The Cannondale 'head of social media' or whatever, picked up on what we were saying, and contacted me direct.

After a lot of back and forth, they finally got an answer for me.

The FD mount on the seat tube of the 2012 Cannondale SuperSix Evo is not the same shape as the 2013 and onwards models. The Cannondale SuperSx Evo 2012 model came out before Dura Ace 9000 was released, and as such the FD mount does not take into account the need for a flat area for the Dura Ace FD grub screw plate to sit.

Apparently, if I take my SuperSix Evo to a Cannondale store, they will unrivet the original FD mount, and put a new version one on for me, free of charge, which will allow the Dura Ace 9000 FD to be mounted correctly.

So there you go. The OP was correct in saying that the 2012 Evo does not deal with Dura Ace 9000 correctly, and had a different shaped FD mount to subsequent models.

Re: Evo and DA9000 FD

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:42 pm
by Svetty
Not sure I'd trust my LBS to un-rivet the FD mount from the carbon tube and re-rivet a new one in its place. Maybe I'm just lucky in that the screw abuts directly onto the metal FD mount , making the use of the little plates un-necessary.

If I really couldn't position the little plates to do the job I'd probably just omit the screw and torque the main mount bolt a tiny bit tighter than normal.....