Zipp 404 Carbon Clincher or Shamal Ultra? Opinions please

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
casper
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:42 am

by casper

I have the opportunity to pick up a set of 2013 Zipp 404 Carbon Clinchers and I was wondering what people thought about them and for those who have used these and Shamals what they would prefer? I've used Shamals for years now and love them and was just about to buy a new set when this opportunity came up...

Primary use would be sunny day training rides, rolling terrain, no real climbs over 2km. Cross winds are not an issue for me as I live on the west coast in a sheltered area and am about 74kg...

Thanks in advance.

User avatar
mr_tim
Posts: 902
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 8:47 pm
Location: durp durp durp

by mr_tim

Quite different wheels - which is what you should expect really considering price tag difference & depth. 404 will feel faster & handle like the deep wheel that it is. Its got a lot to offer & will surprise you if you've been out on traditional deep V shape rims previously - its predictable & fine in most wind conditions esp' at your weight, assuming av. height.

Well worth trying out just for a bit fun to compare to standard 30mm or lower alu wheels.

Shamals are however a good all rounder. Excellent build & great hubs. You won't mind about getting caught in the rain on Shamals whereas 404s being carbon bring with them that concern about rain / grime & wear on the brake track in those conditions.

I've had 404s for a couple of years now alongside various traditional builds like open pro / record, alpha340 / tune, archetype / 240s.. they all do things differently. The 404s are a lot of fun & hold speed very well, if you want to go looking for PBs on rolling or flat terrain they won't hold you back.

If you want a worry free wheel, perhaps the Shamal would be a better choice..Equally a lot of people say the Zonda is more than good enough, so don't overlook you are paying a high premium to get what are fairly marginal gains between wheelsets. 404s will be expensive if you ding them & the rear hub on the 404s can be a faff (which has been addressed in the latest generation of zipp rear hubs). If you existing Shamals are okay to use still, I would get something else for variety - so why not go with the 404s.

by Weenie


Clubagreenie
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:37 am
Location: Perth W.A

by Clubagreenie

Hey mate,
I have TWE custom built 50mm carbon clinchers and a set of upgraded Eurus ... with ceramic bearings ..
Personally I have the best of both worlds. The Eurus are strong and bullet proof. The TWE rims are out of this world. I have seen far too many Zipp rims fail and crack to get my hard earned coin
2012 KUOTA KOM Team Edition Campag SR11 .....My mistress
2012 RIDLEY HELIUM being built up ....

sawyer
Posts: 4484
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Location: Natovi Landing

by sawyer

Get the 404s and then some cheaper alu clinchers.

Shamals are good but overpriced for what they are - little better than wheels costing less than half as much.
----------------------------------------
Stiff, Light, Aero - Pick Three!! :thumbup:

r_mutt
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:33 pm

by r_mutt

Do the double and get a Zonda (almost as nice as a Shamal and 1/2 the price) and the Zipps.

jockalldrick
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 11:49 pm

by jockalldrick

Zipps are so pimp/pro
You need them in your life.

gitsome
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:03 am
Location: nyc

by gitsome

I love my 404s.
My wallet is the lightest thing on my bike.

Valbrona
Posts: 1484
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

by Valbrona

Shamal hubs are top notch quality and easily serviced.

gitsome
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:03 am
Location: nyc

by gitsome

Zipp hubs are not. But they're not totally terrible as some would have you believe.

Though maybe the new ones will be great.

I know, I know...
My wallet is the lightest thing on my bike.

smootherider100
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:57 pm

by smootherider100

Zipp 404 are a bit pimp, if you want a bit pimp. If you want a rim that can actually respond to your brake in the wet (or even damp) then avoid them.
404s are also unpredictable in any kind of windy gusty weather, so going no hands to throw on a rain jacket or opening a banana can be slightly unpredictable and as any experienced cyclist will tell you it does not have to be actually "windy" to experience gusts of wind on a bike, it can happen when passing or being passed by most any kind of vehicle or in other seeming inexplicable circumstances.

If you have a lot of go and want a bit of show then why not, but if you're mostly show and not so much go you'll be a road fodder target for every punk on the road with less worthy wheels who will make a point of leaving you in their dust.

Also, some folk think they are 'pro' but a lot of pros do not!

And Zondas are not the same as Shamals, if they were nobody would buy them.

NYCPrynne
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 6:39 pm

by NYCPrynne

No experience with the Shamal, but I've been riding the 2013 404 Firecrest Clinchers for 16 months now, and can say that they brake well in the dry (even on steep and technical terrain) and are decent climbing wheels (we have climbs of 8-10 km, some with gradients of 15-18% that go on for 1.5-2km, here in the Santa Monica mountains). As far as the many complaints about the hubs, I haven't really seen much in the forums about the 188/V8s from 2013 or the current 188/V9s from 2014. I am more than happy with the V8 hubs as I am not a powerful rider ala Cavendish and find the 2013 wheels & hubs more than robust enough. I tend to think that the Zipp hub complaints are overblown in some regards because negative complaints tend to find their way into the forums more than positive.
Last edited by NYCPrynne on Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CBRE
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:37 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

by CBRE

gitsome wrote:Zipp hubs are not. But they're not totally terrible as some would have you believe.

Though maybe the new ones will be great.

I know, I know...


2013 and above Zipp hubs are pretty damn good, I have four pairs of the latest Zipps and love the hubs and ive had 20+ different sets of wheels over the years.
Curt Brown

2016 Cannondale EVO Etap 13.8#'s
2012 Cannondale Supersix EVO etap 13.7#'s
2017 Cannondale SUPER X Force 16.0#'s
2016 Cannondale FatCad2 28.1#'s
2011 Cannondale Carbon Flash 1 17.9#'s

gitsome
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:03 am
Location: nyc

by gitsome

I agree my hubs are great and roll smooth and crazy.

I have never had problems braking in wet or rain nor do I feel much in 30+ mph gusts and spring wind at ALL, compared to Enve 45, reynolds Dv46 and other such deep rims the 404 FC is incredibly stable and smooth and barely registers gusts. I dont know what the other poster is talking about I was really happily surprised bu how effective the FC rims are. And they are wide, super stable, strong. Im a huge fan and have owned plenty others including the above, various Mavics, box-rims, etc and find the 404FC to be great and practical all around wheel. Ive sold off all my others.
My wallet is the lightest thing on my bike.

NYCPrynne
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 6:39 pm

by NYCPrynne

I forgot to mention that the 2013s are marginally lighter than the 2014s.....after all, weight is a concern in these forums.

by Weenie


Twinning
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:18 pm

by Twinning

NYCPrynne wrote:I forgot to mention that the 2013s are marginally lighter than the 2014s.....after all, weight is a concern in these forums.


They are lighter because the 2013 come with 16/20 spokes vs the 2014 coming with 18/24 spokes. Just had a chance to test out the 2014 808s and boy they are way stiffer than my 2013 404s. Granted that deeper wheels tend to be stiffer I definitely felt less flex. If you guys want to say oh you can't feel the difference, then come out on a ride with me and you can hear the difference. I flexed my 404s so that they would rub the rear brake when it was open all the way and I wasn't able to do that with the 808. It just felt overall more stable. Btw I put out 1700+ watts max and I am a 205 pound rider. So maybe lighter riders who don't put out as much power might not be able to tell the difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post