Wert Straight Shooter stem

[BrianAllan]

Considering the time, scale, and scope of the project, why not simply release a 110mm, and/or a 120mm @ ±7.5º. This would show people that your able to produce a real product, that can be purchased, and satisfies a good portion of the desired stem lengths. Forgive me if you’ve already addressed this in the 20 pages of posts.

[KWalker]

TL;DR- You can't actually produce the product you took pre-orders for. It doesn't matter how complex you describe the design and supply chain process to be. Either you have the skills and resources to produce the product or you don't. In this case it doesn't seem like you do.

This is vaporware. There is no product. Just excuses for why there isn't one. Sure, a stem might not be straightforward, but it is what it is until you actually can produce and ship the parts.

[Mattias Hellöre]

Anyone with a skill level of one hour in any CAD package can design a stem. The difference is to make this stem in a cost effective way over and over again.

[highdraw]

I have to giggle a bit about how discussion has morphed in this thread. The last few posters are spot on.
Zigmeister basically provides an overall summary of the tradeoffs which I went into detail explaining...only now there is agreement instead of personal rancor. Go figure. Conversation should always be cordial but it isn't of course sadly. The inevitable poster comes along and says 'it looks nice'. I have to laugh. Looks has nothing to do with whether a stem will hold up when the bars are being pretzeled in a high 30 mph sprint after several races.

A competitive industry and tough to get a start. Who is going to take a leap of faith and pony up 2x's more for unproven stem for a 20g weigh save with no track record of reliability? Apparently not many or this product may have shipped by now. Even the Wright bros got on board and went off a cliff to prove their airplane could fly...lol. An unbelievable elapse of time. Why hasn't there been a sizable run and these offered like candy to amateur racers to test and establish some credibility? Surprising.

[highdraw]

Anyone with a skill level of one hour in any CAD package can design a stem. The difference is to make this stem in a cost effective way over and over again.

This stem can't be cost effective relative to industry standards because this design cannot sustain industry tolerances at the barrel thickness necessary to create a weight advantage. Further its unproven that a nominal barrel thickness of 1mm will stand up to the rigors of worse case in the hands of strong riders. And yes...over and over again is the point when a design is created that is highly sensitive to tight tolerances. All about maintaining these tolerances...not for just 500 or a few prototypes that pass muster during brief testing.

[mariovalentim]

he's back

[RyanH]

On topic, what will make this stem stiffer/better than the Extralite stem?

Comparing this stem to mass produced stems like the Ritchey 4 axis seems a bit ridiculous and misguided. Why? The 120g Ritchey stem experiences 4.8mm of deflection under a 100lb load at 10in vs Extralite's 83g stem's 5mm of deflection (for reference 3T Arx Team was 3.8mm at 129g). The Extralite stem exceeds UNI 10518 safety standards for fatigue and strength. Based on that, the Ritchey stem strikes me as a subpar stem.

As someone that is not an engineer, I don't see the point in comparing a product that is pushing the envelope to a main stream one, especially when there already is a comparable product available (the Extralite stem). That's like, to me at least, saying that Berk cannot build me a better bike that is both lighter, more comfortable and better handling than Specialized. He may not be able to, but there are those of us willing and able to buy new products and find out for ourselves.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[Rick]

While I don't understand the apparent negativity of some posters, I would agree that producing at least one real stem in at least one size would go a long way toward establishing credibility. You can never please all the people all the time.

[highdraw]

On topic, what will make this stem stiffer/better than the Extralite stem?

Comparing this stem to mass produced stems like the Ritchey 4 axis seems a bit ridiculous and misguided. Why? The 120g Ritchey stem experiences 4.8mm of deflection under a 100lb load at 10in vs Extralite's 83g stem's 5mm of deflection (for reference 3T Arx Team was 3.8mm at 129g). The Extralite stem exceeds UNI 10518 safety standards for fatigue and strength. Based on that, the Ritchey stem strikes me as a subpar stem.

As someone that is not an engineer, I don't see the point in comparing a product that is pushing the envelope to a main stream one, especially when there already is a comparable product available (the Extralite stem). That's like, to me at least, saying that Berk cannot build me a better bike that is both lighter, more comfortable and better handling than Specialized. He may not be able to, but there are those of us willing and able to buy new products and find out for ourselves.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

Let me help you as you say you didn't go to engineering school. There is a common layperson conflation. Stiffness is not strength. Stiffness is stiffness...force/deflection. Strength is force/area.
Quite different. Exhibit A is a common willow tree in a wind storm that blows with the force to take out a 2 foot wide Oak tree and yet the willow tree tosses wildly in the wind and stands after the storm. Nobody will dispute the Oak is infinitely stiffer. Stiff objects can fail. Stress/strain. Glass is stiff and doesn't bend very well.

So to say Ritchey is a subpar stem is laughable. And so is comparing a Ritchey stem to what we have here. Ritchey is a stem sold to ten's of thousand bike riders. It is proven and has been raced successfully in the TdF. I have probably owned 20 and still own 5 WCS 4 Axis. What we are talking about here isn't a stem but rather a concept. Time will tell if it becomes a stem and has merit...or perhaps it never will materialize. To me, its a viable concept, just unproven. No I don't believe 20g is worth the $100 price penalty but others who want the lightest stem may want it.

[Rick]

Comparing this stem to mass produced stems like the Ritchey 4 axis seems a bit ridiculous and misguided. Why? The 120g Ritchey stem experiences 4.8mm of deflection under a 100lb load at 10in vs Extralite's 83g stem's 5mm of deflection (for reference 3T Arx Team was 3.8mm at 129g). The Extralite stem exceeds UNI 10518 safety standards for fatigue and strength. Based on that, the Ritchey stem strikes me as a subpar stem.

Let me help you, as I have been to engineering school: I agree with you.

But I would state it a little more moderately: I don't think it is "ridiculous" to compare the two. The Ritchey (I use the Ritchey C260) might be used as a "landmark" for what light, reliable, mass-produced stems on the market typically weigh and what stiffness is considered acceptable. I would also not consider it "subpar". But I do agree that it would be a mistake to think that just because it weighs what it does or that the Extralight weighs what it does another designer/manufacturer could not do a little better.

One reason why it is prudent to be skeptical of new designs, however, is that there can be 100,000 reasons why it looks good and should work, but it only takes ONE reason that it failed.

[liketoride]

highdraw can you please provide your background in education and current or past employment that makes you an expert on the matter? i have gone through this thread and have come across your opinion more than copied 10 times and you calling out how wert has not answered your questions or has not responded to your post but you have been asked several times where you were educated or what is your background and you have never answered the question. The only thing you have said is you do not work for the stem company your are so high on. Also i was wondering if you could give a little more insight about the bike that you ride for all the members here at WW's. Also i feel your approach and the way you communicate could use some work so that you do not turn people off the way you do.

[highdraw]

highdraw can you please provide your background in education and current or past employment that makes you an expert on the matter? i have gone through this thread and have come across your opinion more than copied 10 times and you calling out how wert has not answered your questions or has not responded to your post but you have been asked several times where you were educated or what is your background and you have never answered the question. The only thing you have said is you do not work for the stem company your are so high on. Also i was wondering if you could give a little more insight about the bike that you ride for all the members here at WW's. Also i feel your approach and the way you communicate could use some work so that you do not turn people off the way you do.

liketoride,
I don't think you understand the rules of engagement on a public forum. There is a reason why each of us post with the shroud of ananimity...to protect our identity. I am under no obligation to share my identity or background. Nor will personal insults be tolerated and of course you didn't engage in this which is appreciated. So what are the rules of engagement? To simply provide our opinion which of course then becomes open season to respond with your opinion in turn and hence dialog and purpose of the forum and hopefully migrate to some semblance of the truth. If your version for example doesn't comport with mine, that is perfectly fine. The fun is in the discussion and putting forth our perspective and debating something we all enjoy...cycling. We each come from different backgrounds and many times countries....what makes discussion interesting.
So if there is something you don't agree with that I posted, please feel free to respond. I will try to clarify. But just like I really don't care what your background is...or anybody here for that matter, I do like talking about bikes and riding them every day.
As to turning people off...I find a high correlation I will share. Those that don't possess a science background tend to judge posts more on style than substance. Maybe you haven't been on many forums...from computers to automobiles to audio to you name it...the world is sadly too full of rancor and intolerance...including your intolerance of my 'style.' I could easily be judgmental about your need to know my background for example. I just look upon your request as silly or misguided. What is the moderator mantra constantly violated on many forums?...which even includes your post. Stick to the topic. Pretty simple. All other comments are ancillary and generally detrimental to decorum. If you think about it...not adhering to the topic at hand is selfish. Please consider that.
Hope this makes sense.

[rmerka]

Too funny. Vigilante justice...lol.
Moderator...please, no worries, I will remove myself from the forum. Its best and clear I don't belong here.
To those that didn't pile on, thank you. There are many good people here and I appreciate you and our discussion.

It appears this was not the case....you still appear to have atrocious people skills too.

[highdraw]

Too funny. Vigilante justice...lol.
Moderator...please, no worries, I will remove myself from the forum. Its best and clear I don't belong here.
To those that didn't pile on, thank you. There are many good people here and I appreciate you and our discussion.

It appears this was not the case....you still appear to have atrocious people skills too.

A rude reminder.
I fell off the wagon. It all started by agreeing with the recent posters response. And then sadly, the personal attacks started again. Darn. I guess that's the way it is. Disappointing.

[mythical]

I'll chime in again, because getting personal will go nowhere.

Basically, Wert Cycling started as a hobby that got out of hand and all costs are paid out of our pockets. We run Wert Cycling in our spare time, prioritizing a regular day job and family obligations, and find ourselves understaffed and underfunded for the magnitude of our enterprise. Nevertheless, we managed to develop this stem together with amazing development partners, such as Schmolke Carbon. In the meantime, we designed an entire component line that makes this stem look like only a footnote.

We really like the Thomson Elite X4, that it's CNC-machined and its stiffness, only we just wanted something lighter, prettier and still durable. Our inspiration for deciding to make CNC-machined parts comes from Ringlé, Machine Tech, Cook Bros, Kooka and other 90s mountainbike brands.

The Straight Shooter stem was designed specifically to excel in hard out-of-the-saddle efforts, such as peloton sprints, where torsional stiffness is desirable, and to withstand use with 700mm riser bars for e.g. enduro mountainbiking. This eliminates the need for separate road and MTB versions. The Wert Straight Shooter stem is ready to go full series production. It works, we want to make 14 sizes, and for a lack of resources we resolve to Wert Incrowdfunding.

How is the Wert Straight Shooter stem so stiff? Its barrel diameter is larger. Ø38mm to be exact. It’s a no-brainer that, all things being equal, a larger diameter tube means greater stiffness, but it also adds weight. 38% larger diameter is double the stiffness. Typically, lightweight stem barrels are about Ø33-34mm.

How is the Wert Straight Shooter stem so light? Same answer: Its barrel diameter is larger. The tradeoff for this weight gain is that less material is needed to bridge the perpendicular handlebar and steerer clamp interfaces and accompanying bolt holes, where stems have most of their mass and many stems have excessive bulk. Most of the actual weight savings on a Straight Shooter stem actually come from using proprietary bolts and clamps.

Together with a leading bolt manufacturer, Wert Cycling developed proprietary hot-forged 6Al/4V titanium hexalobular Torx T25 spherical head socket bolts with an M5x0.5mm fine thread that are 70% stronger than typical titanium bolts with rolled threads. Our bolts uses fine instead of course thread due mechanical advantages such as a larger root diameter and better resistance against axial forces. On our 130mm stem, the barrel counts for 84% of the total weight but we also didn't skimp on bolts and clamps! I can’t think of any stem where this number is higher. It's total weight roughly dissects like this:

Main barrel — 71 grams
Clamps (2x) — 7 grams
Bolts (6x) — 7 grams
Total — 85 grams

How is the Wert Straight Shooter stem so strong? The inside profile of a Straight Shooter stem barrel resembles a butted tube, only more contoured. The centre of the barrel is stressed less than the areas near the clamps, so naturally we redistributed material to where it's needed. We designed its transition between surfaces with obtuse angles for an optimized stress dissipation.

Contrary to the opinion of some, a wall thickness of 1mm in the center more than suffices in handling all the stresses from years of hardcore riding. Many other lightweight stems have similar wall thicknesses in a smaller diameter barrel and manage just fine. The transition from barrel to clamps matters more, where wall thickness easily increases to over double or even triple that of the center section. In fact, barrel wall thickness actually increases infinitesimally through tool wear sustained with volume CNC-turning. Thus later production units made with the same turning tooling actually gain weight compared to earlier ones, though this margin is negligible and with no discernible difference. Plenty of riders, even winners of major races, ride/rode aluminum frames with thinner and way longer butted tubes that hold up just fine.

When is a stem strong enough? For Wert Cycling this implies exceeding EN14781 (road bikes) and EN14766 (mountainbikes) safety standards that makes a stem suitable for competition during official UCI events.

A few of our stems got tested at EFBE with the EN14781 (see photo). EFBE's managing director recommended our latest stem for production, and even wants one for his own bike. For testing, the bolts were tightened to 7Nm yet the clamps also had zero issues. With post-test inspection, the 141 gram Schmolke FullOver TLO showed zero damage due to the optimized handlebar clamp interface. Fairwheel Bikes reviewed the FullOver SL bars as the 2nd stiffest and 2nd lightest overall with the best stiffness-to-weight ratio.

Video footage shows the handlebars bending like crazy with each cycle, yet stem deflection remains virtually unnoticeable. Stems for official ISO:FDIS certification require archiving, and Wert Cycling intends to provide a 145mm production specimen instead of this 130mm.



We rode this stem with 2.5Nm of torque and no carbon paste to hold the widest and longest reach drop bars we could find, with no any signs of bar slip, even under continuous bunny hopping and deliberate pothole hitting at >45km/h (I know because I tried). To ourselves we have proven that stems CAN be very light and stiff, durable, trouble-free, decent-looking and clamp well. Once we get production started, we can provide samples for other parties to do their independent testing, naturally before paying customers can take delivery. We find that demanding even more proving, such as in this thread, is unreasonable at this time. Wait for production!

To get a better impression of what others thought of our Straight Shooter stem, we let other riders try, and the resulting feedback was overwhelmingly positive. We feel no need to document their experiences as we expect testimonies from buyers once this stem is available. Peace out!