Wert Straight Shooter stem

[Rick]

After seeing how this evolved, can you imagine what the discussion would have looked like if Time or Look had decided to discuss their products and "design philopsophy" on this forum prior to releasing their latests pedal designs ?


Well....actually, it might have helped them a lot, if they really listened!

You have to give Wert some major credit for courage!

[DanW]

In terms of getting stuff out and starting a business there must be more opportunity in other areas than a stem. The massive delay getting it out there, difficulty converting a 130mm design to shorter length, skepticism customers will place on a perceived *more* safety critical part and, let's be honest the massive discussion this has created support it being a very much uphill battle at the current point in time. The Wert crankset looks more unique and more of a headline grabber for a new company and Wert apparently have pedals in the pipeline so it's not plucking two items from thin air. It's just a case of where to focus efforts to build a business and reputation before maybe taking on some pet projects that are cool but always liable to struggle a touch more than other options. All just IMO. Crowdfunding on the other hand must be one of the worst (legal) scams going- sure it is great for the people receiving the money!

EDIT: Definite credit for the openess and courage as above

After seeing how this evolved, can you imagine what the discussion would have looked like if Time or Look had decided to discuss their products and "design philopsophy" on this forum prior to releasing their latests pedal designs ?

Or compare it to someone like Berk on here who appears fantastically talented, driven and switched on to all aspects of designing, creating, manufacturing, testing and crucially delivering awesome, unique, light weight parts (that are great value too!). Perhaps not completely fair on a new comer to cycling component manufacturing as he appears rather a rare breed

[wheelsONfire]

I would love to see a crankset from Wert/ Rico. But i also wonder, when we now have FSA and Rotor coming with news, maybe Shimano is around the corner.

Not to mention many seems to go for power meters. Is it perhaps an uncertain market for more expensive cranksets?

I guess if price start to peak, people will compare with Clavicula SE.

[highdraw]

Honesty, I think some of the questions Highdraw and in particular Beancounter in his last post are asking, are very valid. From my time in this industry I have seen a lot of newcomers with new ideas and designs. The problems show themselves with the execution and/or later on in real life. Also, my nod to Karsten for asking that question. Was the first generations not safe or good enough? Is the new one? And if so, why aren't they being produced already?

I am as tired as anybody else hearing about the Ritchey stems, though. I don't beleive they are anything special anymore. The Fairwheel test seems to back that up as well. Anecdotely, the only stem ever failing on me was a Ritchey. My training partner broke a carbon/alu Ritchey stem also, injuring him quite a lot. So everything can fail.

Thanks...you get it and perhaps the silent majority who haven't responded here do as well but not the non technical people that have responded. There is little disclosure in spite of questions asked. Indeed problems only show with execution over time or later in real life. The point that goes over the heads of the indignant few is...even with copious discipline, failures still occur. Without the background and knowledge, this probability goes way up. What really ups the ante?...taking industry standard and taking weight out of it. There is a reason why industry standard exists and not a plethora of 80 gram stems out there. The amount of discipline it takes to make 80g stems in the hands of strong riders than won't fail is many orders of magnitude more difficult than producing an industry standard stem that won't fail. There is a reason nobody on this forum rides a 1000g wheelset for example. So let the believers partake I say. Darwinism has its just desserts all said.
As to not being produced...its possible the salesman here believes he can crowd fund his project by his shilling on a public forum without answering basic questions about the design. Will see how many 'believers' there are. 500 watt riders who want to buy game by spending 2x's as much for a 20g weight save should be safe after all just like Aunt Maybell riding her Schwinn on the sidewalk. I can go onto any forum with a product I created in my garage and ask people I don't know on blind faith to contribute. Why not? People give in the name of religion every day.

[andrewfelix]

I was enjoying reading the thread, and I don't generally participate in the conversations on the forum. I thought Highdraw raised some very good questions toward the start of the conversation, and a bit of scrutiny seems to help.

But Highdraw; long after you made your point you've gone around and around in circles with the same argument and started to get overly antagonistic and condescending, down to the point where you're now attacking people personally.

I think you made some good points, we've heard them loud and clear. Time to let it go.

At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding, so let Wert prove themselves without having to participate in this merry go round of arguments and insults.

[corky]

I was enjoying reading the thread, and I don't generally participate in the conversations on the forum. I thought Highdraw raised some very good questions toward the start of the conversation, and a bit of scrutiny seems to help.

But Highdraw; long after you made your point you've gone around and around in circles with the same argument and started to get overly antagonistic and condescending, down to the point where you're now attacking people personally.

I think you made some good points, we've heard them loud and clear. Time to let it go.

At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding, so let Wert prove themselves without having to participate in this merry go round of arguments and insults.

He can't..... His ego won't let him.... He is the the greatest engineer on the internet

[highdraw]

Condescension against such unfounded backlash including the criticism of both members just above can't be avoided on the internet. What makes debate almost impossible. You just don't realize, it is YOUR dissention. You contribute ZERO technically to this thread other than deriding someone with the background you don't possess. The issue at hand isn't style but technical...the world I come from.
So no, there is no common ground and will leave it to you...the uninformed to discuss.

[Butcher]

But what is your background? Still waiting for an answer.

[drchull]

Internet troll from multiple websites is his background.

[mythical]

[andrewfelix]

Looks lovely. Look forward to seeing it IRL. Keep it up, ignore the armchair engineers.


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[Wingnut]

Me too...

[KWalker]

Sorry, but I love the arm chair discussion.

This thread is 20+ pages and over 2 years old. Orders were taken, stems still haven't shipped. This is one of the worst vaporware threads to ever grace this or any cycling board.

Plus if it were trolling it would be really easy to respond to right? But Wert hasn't and some of the points are quite good.

[mythical]

The render was just to tryout a software feature that I thought people might like to see. Apologies to all armchair discussion aficionados for trying to get a bicycle stem into production and not an armchair.

@Kwalker: Mentioning ‘vaporware’ is a bit of a cheap shot to stir up a discussion, no? (rhetorical question) Although I expected it sooner in the thread. Points were made, and acknowledged, but I find that this thread already has too many cheap shots. People taking unnecessary shots at each other? C'mon... Also, calling the Straight Shooter stem vaporware looks derogatory and your comment undermines our attempt to get this part produced, plus the capital and work (many thousands of hours) already invested in development. Uncool, man.

Seriously though. This kind of connotation does raise a certain atmosphere in this thread, so I encourage anyone who seeks a more interesting and enlightened discussion to come up with more thoughtful contributions. Interesting questions beget interesting answers and Wert Cycling likes to answer. And 20 pages in 2 years isn't a lot, right? This board has threads with several hundreds of pages.

Can anyone estimate the costs involved in putting this stem on the market in 14 sizes? Let's not include development costs that need recouping. Does anyone here understand how many production units are needed for the Straight Shooter stem to have a low enough cost price to be viable for release and sell at €198 a piece? Wert Cycling isn’t going to starting production with only a few sizes and with time (and revenue) expand to more sizes. That’s discrimination against customers waiting (indefinitely?) for a size whose turn hasn't come. Should Wert Cycling then take pre-orders and accept surcharges for custom units? That's unworkable for everyone.

That total number for the first production series is near a thousand units for 14 sizes. That’s 2 angles, ±7.5º and ±17º, and 7 lengths of 75, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130 and 145mm. We developed a specific strategy for Wert Cycling to reduce initial costs. Our release date for all these 14 sizes is ±12 weeks from us making a call and an agreed upon downpayment to our designated CNC turning shop.

We tried to raise this necessary capital through conventional channels. If we agreed, we would've spent much of our time working for someone else’s profit at the expense of our subsequent planned product releases. Dissatisfied with this option, we needed to find another way. Meanwhile, the Wert Cycling team changed its perspective on finance altogether in order to come up with a more satisfactory solution.

Now we seek the assistance of fellow cyclists to help raise production capital, specifically for those who want Wert Cycling products to be on the market and on their bikes. In return, Wert Cycling offers to deliver them Wert parts free of charge with full refunds. We are calling it Wert Incrowdfunding, because of, well, crowdsourcing from the incrowd. Instead of filling the pockets of a venture capitalist, we'll actually enhance the bikes of those who believe in our brand. Not before we let the crowd decide that Wert Cycling will make awesome products, or not, will we acquiesce to the vaporware designation.

One last note. No orders were taken. Wert Cycling doesn't do pre-orders. We have only 1 customer, a personal friend and possible future employee, who wanted a stem and simply made a payment (you know who you are!). He refused any offers for a refund, and we thank him for his patience and for believing in Wert Cycling. We subsequently honored him by making him a backer in Wert Incrowdfunding. Who will follow?

[Zigmeister]

Why on Earth would anybody place an order for a product that has not/likely never going into production (not a cheap shot, I commend the effort), just because it might save a few grams and unproven?

Assume you have one made and put it on a test rig and did a few hundred thousand iterations of wear/flex testing of the stem to ensure it won't crack? Even the well known companies have had issues at times with stems/faceplates cracking etc.

If there is a few parts on my bike I don't want to be cheap or light necessarily, Stem/HandleBars/Pedals/BB/Cranks and wheels. I'll take a few hundred gram hit across all of those components to ensure they won't snap like a twig on a dead tree.

But, when somebody actually produces something that is light/stiff and lasts, maybe they will have something. But putting a little engineering buffer can go a long way, and that usually amounts to some mass/weight.

Good luck though! Interesting thread over the past few years.