Page 4 of 41

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:53 pm
by bikerjulio
ave wrote:I wonder what did all the pros use in all the races this year?
I don't think that they went out to buy sram cassettes.


Yes, but. Those pro's are considered heavy at 160#.

Perhaps OP is a 260# giant of a man putting out huge torque.

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:24 pm
by 4914
Broken DA 9000 11spd cassette collection....
Image
Image
Image

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:02 pm
by PSM
Stunned. :shock:

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:16 pm
by pdlpsher1
PSM wrote:Stunned. :shock:


By the immense power/weight of the cyclist or by the Shimano rubbish product design? :lol:

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:37 pm
by ichobi
Those look pretty dangerous...

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:58 pm
by 4914
Though I'd like to think that I have so much power I can break cassettes, the truth is I wasn't even going that hard at all (after the first one broke I've been very careful not to do so especially when its was making noises) I'm 92kg now... body weight has nothing to do with it. Power and torque do. (assuming a heavier rider can put out more power is reasonable-but I'm sure there are plenty 60kg guys who can pump out way more than some 90kg guys)
in the past I've done full on track starts on my old Cannondale with alloy frame and Dura ace 9 spd putting out 1500-1700 watts and no problem whatsoever with cassette or chain... i wouldn't even been doing 1000w when these things broke.
bottom line is this wouldn't fail if its was made of a reasonably strong alloy.
perhaps they should put a warning label on the box "not for cyclist above 65kg" or "max power 600watts" :D

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:24 pm
by PSM
pdlpsher1 wrote:
PSM wrote:Stunned. :shock:


By the immense power/weight of the cyclist or by the Shimano rubbish product design? :lol:


The latter.

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:04 am
by 4914
What do you think of the pics Trek UK? Are you still laughing? Lucky that despite blowing up the cassettes I'm a forgiving guy and contacted shimano for the benefit of others not myself. I've already sorted myself out and wasn't even moaning to the shimano Europe guy when I told him I didn't want another one as I'm going to use SRAM

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:43 am
by CerveloBert
Those pics are pretty astonishing. Good luck with whatever you go with, it'll definitely be better than what you've experienced.

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:55 am
by maxxevv
The local experience here is that the cassettes need to be tightened to spec the first time round. And if you hear any creaking to be re-tightened to spec the second time ASAP. And the second time round will eliminate the loosening issue. Seems that there is some 'bedding' in for the carbon spiders ??

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:13 am
by oreoboreo
... all I can say is wow!

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:15 am
by goodboyr
Install them to spec.........that's a novel idea. I think the op's point was that despite his expertise he experienced this repeated failure. So what can we conclude? Here's some possibilities:
1. Failure occurs no matter what you do as long as you are big and strong; or
2. If you install them properly and check them they won't fail;

Option 1. Assumes shimano is incapable of designing and testing critical load characteristics.
Option 2. Assumes the Op despite his assurances did not install them or check them correctly.

So........which is it?

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:31 am
by bikerjulio
goodboyr wrote:Install them to spec.........that's a novel idea. I think the op's point was that despite his expertise he experienced this repeated failure. So what can we conclude? Here's some possibilities:
1. Failure occurs no matter what you do as long as you are big and strong; or
2. If you install them properly and check them they won't fail;

Option 1. Assumes shimano is incapable of designing and testing critical load characteristics.
Option 2. Assumes the Op despite his assurances did not install them or check them correctly.

So........which is it?


If you read the OP's post, he did not install any of the 3 broken cassettes.

Looking at the photos, I'm failing to understand why the lockring torque has anything to do with the failures. Please explain.

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:38 am
by goodboyr
Its not for me to explain failures based on pictures and descriptions. The only fact I can contribute is that myself and others have installed and torqued them correctly and have not experienced these failures. You would need to examine these properly. I assume these pictures went to shimano with the complaint. If there was a systematic issue there would be a recall. That's expected in the laws of many countries. Yet there is no recall. So my assumption is that shimano concluded this was an installation error. And the only installation parameter for a cassette is the lockring torque.

Re: Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:44 am
by KLabs
goodboyr wrote:Install them to spec.........that's a novel idea. I think the op's point was that despite his expertise he experienced this repeated failure. So what can we conclude? Here's some possibilities:
1. Failure occurs no matter what you do as long as you are big and strong; or
2. If you install them properly and check them they won't fail;

Option 1. Assumes shimano is incapable of designing and testing critical load characteristics.
Option 2. Assumes the Op despite his assurances did not install them or check them correctly.

So........which is it?

Hi goodboyr/TrekUK, interesting/amazing replies :o

My interpretation is that the spider can be faulty and that Shimano will most likely correct the issue in time, just like Shimano fixed the issue with the 6700 chain when it was initially released where link breakages occurred.
When the 6700 chains encountered link breakages I don't remember there being any recalls...

Hi 4914, thank you for letting us all know of this issue with the DA 11spd cassette spider :)

It does sound a little dangerous, so it is fortunate that noone has been injured todate :)

thanks KL :)