Felt 2014 AR1

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Andrew69
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am

by Andrew69

trilocus wrote:
Andrew69 wrote:trilocus, what aero bars are you using?
Thanks


enve aero road bar in size 44

Thanks, looks great!

Krackor
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:48 pm

by Krackor

aaric wrote:The AR1 data cyclenutnz posted seems to confirm a big jump in 58 weights, though I don't think we've seen anyone post a 56?

I posted my 56cm AR1 back in March.

http://imgur.com/a/chws9

1176g (frame, w/ bottle cage bolts, RD hangar, metal chainstay protector plate, bolts for external Di2 battery mount (the heavy, black version))
337g (fork, uncut)

cunn1n9
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:24 am

by cunn1n9

53x12 wrote:
cunn1n9 wrote:Superdave - can you please explain the logic of so many bike makers (Felt included) using the hidden rear brake vs the traditional front brake.

I would think that aero wise doing an integrated front brake would yield much more gains that putting the rear brake in the awkward under BB position. I am surprised that you don't use the Shimano dual mount front brake (like the Trek for example) that is supposed to be more aerodynamic but go to the trouble of hiding the rear brake when it is already kind of hidden by the seat stays. It seems a lot of trouble (plus the noted disadvantages of poorer braking that seems to plague these designs - see Marcel Wurst at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUuaKbZLWgU)

Just looking for reasons for these decisions. BTW I do like the look of the hidden rear brake but the benefits seem very small aero wise for the trouble yet no effort made on front brake which must have much more aero impact.



From what I have read, an exposed front brake costs you 30-50g of drag. 75-80% of that can be gained back by using something like a TriRig Omega or a Hooker Aero SL brake (hope I am getting those drag numbers correct as I am going off the top of my head. SD will know for sure). A completely integrated front brake like the Giant uses, can be a pain to setup, you have lots of housing and cable exposed going down to the front brake and usually you don't get great stopping power or modulation.

I agree regarding the rear brake location. I think shielding it with the design of the seat stays might make more sense. However, for Felt, by placing the brake in the BB area that allowed them to get rid of the brake bridge and were able to tune the seat stays more for comfort since the brake was no longer there.

There is no reason why you can't purchase the Shimano Dura Ace 9010 Integrated front brake and put that on the bike yourself.


How would you fix the 9010 front brake on. I don't think the fork has holes for it?

SuperDave
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by SuperDave

53x12 wrote:Yes it is a 51. At this point there aren't many examples for weight quite yet. Hopefully over the nxt few months that will change to get a better idea on the weights.

AR1 frame

51: 1071g/335g (Stalken)
58: 1216g/331g (cyclenutnz)

So far have these sizes and weights for AR FRD

54:1037g/334g (trilocus)
58:1052g/328g (liketoride)
58: 1100g ish/334g (aaric)

At this point, weight seems far off from the 905g or whatever the final production weight was for a size 56 Felt AR FRD frame. The above weights (even subtracting out liners, bolts, RD hanger...etc.) is a ways off IMO. SuperDave said he was going to post a video weighing final production FRD and AR1 frames to YouTube. I don't believe he has yet.


The video of me weighing the raw 56cm AR FRD frame sample is on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYP0pLoQzP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYP0pLoQzP0


Apologies for the shaky amateur video and broadcaster. I've been told I have a face for radio.
It was 896g without any of the bolt-on items included. It did have the BB shell, head tube bearing seats, direct mount brake bosses and all 6 threaded riv-nuts installed.
-SD


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53x12
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by 53x12

Cool. Thanks SD for shooting that and posting it.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

SuperDave
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by SuperDave

53x12 wrote:Cool. Thanks SD for shooting that and posting it.


I wish I had more time to do this type of thing. The 24g of hanger or weight of the bolts, plus the weight of the decals and 3 clear coat layers plus the cable guides/grommets, etc.... all add up.
The 2014 frame will probably end up being 5-10g lighter than the 2015 based on the artwork design alone.

I realize the audience I'm speaking to but sometimes I wish I had a better way to demonstrate how insignificant weight is to the experience of actually riding a bicycle. The fact that someone would decide on a Felt AR FRD or a Scott FOIL or Cervelo S5 VWD based on how much each frameset weighs is really a disservice to the guys who've created the products and used the focal point of their own ideas on where to pinpoint the balance of the finished product.

If I look back to 2006 at our original F1c and relaxed our stiffness, ride quality, and fitting requirements we could build a 770g AR FRD, but that wouldn't make it a better bike.

Anyhow, for those that were lucky enough to score an AR FRD this year, enjoy the ride - indeed that is what we've put 4 years of development into. I think the little video posted should be the last thing you use to decide if the Felt AR is right for you.

-SD

Porkinson
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:20 am

by Porkinson

Hi Dave,

Any Idea if (or when) the regular seat post will be made available to buy on it's own. I've stripped the threads on the 3T inserts, and I also want to be able to use my 9.6mm carbon railed saddle.

Many thanks,

Simon

SuperDave
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by SuperDave

Porkinson wrote:Hi Dave,

Any Idea if (or when) the regular seat post will be made available to buy on it's own. I've stripped the threads on the 3T inserts, and I also want to be able to use my 9.6mm carbon railed saddle.

Many thanks,

Simon


The 3T internals are available on our website and replacement VM seatposts can be ordered from our Dealer Support center via your Felt Retailer.
http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2014/Pa ... Rails.aspx

-SD

gzon
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:32 pm

by gzon

DIrected to Felt in general. I have a hard time finding Felt bikes and the new AR in particular here in Sweden. It is a small country but Specialized, Scott and to some extent Merida and Cannondale is almost all you can find at an LBS. If I want to buy a Felt AR FRD I am left to buying it online (if at all), untested etc etc. Based on the numer of pages for this frame/bike alone I think you should look into increasing your presence worldwide.

aaric
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:10 pm

by aaric

Not quite done, but a picture nonetheless:

Image

Mize
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA

by Mize

SD,

What about that neutral offset seat post?

Thanks

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

mitchgixer6
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:22 pm

by mitchgixer6

Porkinson wrote:Hi Dave,

Any Idea if (or when) the regular seat post will be made available to buy on it's own. I've stripped the threads on the 3T inserts, and I also want to be able to use my 9.6mm carbon railed saddle.

Many thanks,

Simon


Glad I'm not the only one that's done that! Steel bolts into aluminium is never a good idea. Always used a 5nm torque key with mine so must have been slightly cross threaded but not enough to properly feel.

If it helps you get back on the road an M5 heli coil kit will fix it. Either that or Chain Reaction are selling the Palladio Pro posts for less than £30 just now which has a similar insert which you could use. Certainly cheaper than £50 odd from 3T.

SuperDave
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by SuperDave

Mize wrote:SD,

What about that neutral offset seat post?

Thanks

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk


November.
-SD

Porkinson
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:20 am

by Porkinson

SuperDave wrote:
The 3T internals are available on our website and replacement VM seatposts can be ordered from our Dealer Support center via your Felt Retailer.
http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2014/Pa ... Rails.aspx

-SD



The oval clamps on the VM post only take saddle rails that are exactly 10mm. Is there any way to purchase the Felt version of the post in the UK?

Thanks,

Simon

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