I have zero problems with needing any play. In fact...I have always used the Look cleat with minimum movement.
I am due for a new pair of pedals. Is there any real power transfer advantage with speedplay?
I guess that I am looking for data or feel from anyone that switched from look keo max to speedplay.
Thanks in advance.
Plenty of my buddies swear by Speedplays and have been on them as long as I've been on Looks. My hypothesis, especially for high mileage riders, is that the body adapts to a pedal system over a long period of time and switching can be very problematic. For a variety of reasons, I suspect the degree of adaptation is more true for pedals than just about any other component. At the time, I wondered if my body would simply adapt to the Speedplays (still wonder about this), but I gave it enough time and the knees were bad enough that I wasn't going to wait and find out. So, I quickly ended the experiment.
I'm now on Keo ti blades with the red (higher tension) spring. Ultra light, perfect amount of float for me with the grey (limited float) cleat, good tension, big contact area, etc. I love them. Re: weight, the lightest ti Speeplays weigh about 40g (claimed) less but the X cleats are what, 60g per pair (again, claimed)? Out of curiosity, I just weighed a set of my grey Look cleats and they come in at 39g for a pair. So, assuming the aforementioned claimed weights are close to accurate and that the X cleats hardware weighs around the same as Look hardware, you're looking at saving somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 grams total. From my perspective, risking a bad transition like I experienced just to see the scale go down by .04 lb. isn't worth it. So many other ways to lose 20g (different bar tape, a few ti bolts, rim strips, etc. ad nauseum).
Of course, my experience may not apply at all to you and you may love Speedplays, especially the Zeros. Just thought it might be good to throw out my experience, tho' not perfectly analagous, for you to consider before embarking on a pedal switch.
My input on each system:
Look: nice and solid interface but could be problematic when sprinting. I managed to pull out of the pedals during few sprints. Float is not that nice and it gets worst with cleats wearing out.
Time (RSX) nice float, but the interface gets sloppy with time.
Speedplay: float is nice without any restrictions. I can notice the change of the angle of the foot everytime I change the position on the bike. My feet naturally get in to proper place based on the effort and position.
I think it comes down to this, all of the major pedal systems have evolved to suit a slightly different sort of user over 10-30 years and all have pros and cons. It's simply a matter of finding the system that you get on with. If you're happy with Look, but want a change I'd say that the closest similar option is probably Time.
I have , lets call them, problematic old man knees!!
After spending a few months off due to a knee injury amongst other non cycling reasons I am getting back to turning the pedals.
Having read numerous 'Look v Speedplay and knees' debate and had come to the conclusion that speedplays were better for those with dodgy knees.
Better to stick with what you know. So that means some Dura Ace pedals as IMHO they're better than the Looks. Personally I think Times are a better solution. They feel a bit different to the Looks and (despite what the previous poster said) they never rock side to side in my experience (about 5 pairs currently) they don't. The other good thing is that in the RXS series the cleat is plastic and metal, which I think is a better solution as the metal piece is extremely robust and works reliably even if you wear out the plastic bits completely while walking around. Thus the cleats last a long, long time, maybe as long as 2-3 years if you avoid scuffing your feet. I don't know whether the current Iclic pedals are better, or not - I haven't felt the need to change yet.
Also you should look at the recent thread which discusses Speedplay's dubious business practices, repair and spare part pricing policies. Not a company I would wish to support.
Q-FACTOR IS A RED HERRING
for any non-trivial set of answers, the value of g can be described by the wavefunction ψ(g), the superposition of all values g satisfying 0 ≤ g ≤ ∞
only when the observer personally tries the object will the wavefunction collapse to provide a single real value for g, however, other observers separated by a time-like interval may measure different values for g, indeed they may even measure such values without causal connection to the object in question
physics only seems strange until you exprience the interweb
STARNUT wrote:2nd what geoff said. I ride Keo black with a black cleat. The Speedplay always develop a "rocking" in the cleat as they wear but long before they wear-out. Causes me a ton of knee pain.
Great point on rocking (more than float).
A note on float is that Look float very freely, but a lot of folks miss the point that the float is different and not just in easy versus sticky float. A key point is that with Speedplay your whole foot pivots around the pedal body but with Look type systems the cleat is fixed at the point and floats at the back. That fixed point at the front isnt a huge difference, but is a slightly better brace point for the float versus the pivot with speedplay.
I've watched several fit sessions with Pro riders (and lots of others), and the wear and rocking are the most frequently addressed things that relate to the pedals themselves.
The float thing isn't as problematic as either:
1. (and this is number "1" buy miles) bad set up
2. Cleat wear (and while both systems cleats wear, the type of wear results in a lot bigger change in fit character for speedplay).
The thing with speedplay versus Shimano / Look / Campy is that the cleat wear with Speedplay creates way more instability due to the smaller platform.
The "do the math" Ad vert was one of the most misleading things I've ever seen. The suggested size of the contact patch isnt as important as where the contact takes place.
Take two camera Tri pods. One with 1" feet and the other with 1.5" feet. The answer to the question "which one is more stable?" sounds easy unless the 1" feet are spread out significantly farther apart...
One of the key components of cleat set up is getting the tilt of your foot correct. As speedplays wear out, they create multiples of tilt versus wide cleat pedal systems (and that makes for a lot more wobble)... As wide cleat type sustems wear, the wear a lot "flatter" and across a much larger area and dont create tilt and wobble nearly as bad as speedplay...
A key fix for a lot of pro's and people putting in a lot of miles is almost always down to cleat and pedal body replacement. For sponsored guys, that's not a problem. They can get bags of parts and make sure they're always tight and flat.
That's not as practical for most folks (including this web reviewer hack)...
Past that, I love using new Speedplay pedals (it's nothing to do with weight though, as the total weight difference for these on a three holed shoe versus Looks lightest is not any place near substantial). I can dial the float (and adjustment is exceptionally easy) to a reasonable spot and I love the entry and exit. But I don't use em. I don't like paying for the upkeep and I dont like having to constantly check things as they wear to make sure I don't wind up off the bike for a month from Knee issues related not to float, but the slop that develops. And even when brand new, I feel more stable in Look / Campy / Shimano systems...
No float pedals (Areolites) definitely caused knee pain. Luckily it was not serious, but it was chronic a noticeable. That is what prompted me to try the Floaty Looks when they first came out.
Knee pain definitely got better with the floaty Looks, but didn't completely disappear. The float of Looks was a very high-friction float. More like "I can shift my foot if I need to" rather than "float". They were pretty heavy.
So when speedplays first appeared, I got right on them (X-series, actually a pre-X series all aluminum version, but pretty similar). Mainly due to the light weight and ease of entry. The friction free- float was freakish at first, but my knees loved it. No pain whatsoever.
Later, I wanted to limit the inside-float angle so my ankle bones wouldn't rub the crank-arm when out of the saddle, so switched to Zeros. They have more friction in the float, so you don't feel like you are on ice, but it is still a lot freer than the Looks. My knees are still happy, and the pedal float feels quite naturally adjusting.
I am bewildered by anyone with entry issues on speedplay. You just step down and your in. No need to look or rotate the pedal. If its not working that way for you, then your cleats must be set up wrong. I have been using speedplays since Richard Bryne was a one-man company selling from his house, and I have never had an issue with entry (or exit). I use cafe-covers if I have to wallk around in them. That helps keep dirt out of the cleat.
Wear: speedplays do wear, but I replace my cleats once a year. The pedals wear too, but fortunately I have either bought new ones or refurbished to old ones every 5 years or so, so it has never been an issue (for me). I hear some people wear them faster and it has been speculated by others (not me) that this is due to the rocking forces some people create while pedaling. I just don't have that problem.
I am not exactly a speedplay devotee, but I am a very satisfied user. For many years there was nothing that even came close on weight. Now, some of the new Looks and Dura Ace look like an interesting option, but I don't have an incentive to switch now that I have three road bikes with Zeros and a mtn bike with frogs.
Rick wrote:I am bewildered by anyone with entry issues on speedplay. You just step down and your in. No need to look or rotate the pedal. If its not working that way for you, then your cleats must be set up wrong. I have been using speedplays since Richard Bryne was a one-man company selling from his house, and I have never had an issue with entry (or exit). I use cafe-covers if I have to wallk around in them. That helps keep dirt out of the cleat.
I was bewildered to have entry and exit problems with them, having never experienced the like with Adidas, Look, SPD, Diadora, and Time. As I posted earlier others have suggested that perhaps I should have tried various shims with the cleats, but as far as I remember I tried everything to get them to work including the shims. I switched to Time RXEs* screwed the cleats on to the shoes and away I went, no further thought. I then switched to Time I-Clics and again the same experience tighten cleats on and ride away. With the I-Clics it seems that if your cleat is anywhere near the pedal it will engage.
* Normally I sell all my used gear on the net, however the RXEs were so good I've kept them.
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