Cervelo RCA Vs. Trek Madone 7 Vapor Vs. Cannondale SuperSix

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Which would you pick?

Cervelo RCA
50
39%
Trek Madone 7 VaporWeight
22
17%
Cannondale SuperSix Evo Black
55
43%
 
Total votes: 127

spartan
Posts: 1169
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

what crankset are you planning on using?

shimano/campy the madone vapor will be closer in weight to the rca.

madone only requires bearings as the cups are molded. ~50gm
cervelo rca require the heavy rotor bbright pressfit bearing ~ 110gm.
cannondale press fit bb ~90gm

pic of a roadbikereview member's madone ~12lbs. replace the heavy crank could rival sedluks cervelo

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2017 Giant TCR Advanced SL 0 DI2 9150

Horacio
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:28 am

by Horacio

One of those frames doesn't even belong in the same sentence as the others.

by Weenie


sedluk
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:10 am

by sedluk

The Cervelo Rca does not come with a crankset. The Slipstream team always seems to build their Cervelo’s with Rotor cranks but they have a 15 lbs weight limit and maybe they get a good deal for advertising. The Rca includes a Rotor BB, it is the heaviest BB you can install in a Cervelo. I assume that most people will place their Rotor BB on eBay and buy a lighter one. THM 91 grams, SRAM is 82 grams

NiFTY
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm

by NiFTY

I would go the RCA if cost wasn't an object. I have an evo and it is a great riding frame. Haven't ridden the new madone, but by all accounts it is a nice frame. I understand some people wanting an independant to build their frame, and thats fine, but to say that a single man operation tube to tube build is going to be better than a "superbike" built by companies that spend more in R+D every day then any independant has ever spent in the history of their company is ridiculous. They don't have access to special carbon cloth or resins, if they make a lighter tube to tube frame than a high end monocoque, then i can almost guarantee it will be less stiff and more fragile.
Evo 5.02kg SL3 6.77 Slice RS 8.89 viewtopic.php?f=10&t=110579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SLCBrandon
Posts: 733
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 am

by SLCBrandon

Just my opinion, but if it's my money it's going to be the EVO. Price and geometry being the biggest factors.

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andy2
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by andy2

Hi guys,

Don't want to hijack the thread but as we're mentioned here I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths.

As much as we admire the RCa and consider it to be a benchmark product, they do not have access to any carbon prepreg or resin systems we don't - as a matter of fact I'd wager it's the other way around.

As far as aerodynamics go, CFD software with over 100 million nodes is now becoming available to a wider audience, the trick is what you do with it..
Our aero work is done at Lotus F1 by aerodynamicist Nick Hales. We feel their knowledge and resources measure up to most cycling companies.

Lastly on monocoques versus tube to tube: please note that neither the RCa nor the Trek nor Cannondale are true monocoques.
They are 'multi-coques' where the main frame is assembled from different pieces and glued into a separate bb piece.
Our bike however is a monocoque where the entire main triangle, along with bb & headtube including bearing races, is molded in one piece with continuous fibers throughout.
Being bespoke, we also don't need to play averages when calculating the layup for the rider.

/a
rolobikes

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kgt
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

As you know andy2 these three companies spend big amounts for marketing, pro team sponsoring etc which you don't. So even if you have a better product these have an (unfair maybe) advantage.

justkeepedaling
Posts: 1341
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)

by justkeepedaling

andy2 wrote:Hi guys,

Don't want to hijack the thread but as we're mentioned here I want to take the opportunity to dispel a few myths.

As much as we admire the RCa and consider it to be a benchmark product, they do not have access to any carbon prepreg or resin systems we don't - as a matter of fact I'd wager it's the other way around.

As far as aerodynamics go, CFD software with over 100 million nodes is now becoming available to a wider audience, the trick is what you do with it..
Our aero work is done at Lotus F1 by aerodynamicist Nick Hales. We feel their knowledge and resources measure up to most cycling companies.

Lastly on monocoques versus tube to tube: please note that neither the RCa nor the Trek nor Cannondale are true monocoques.
They are 'multi-coques' where the main frame is assembled from different pieces and glued into a separate bb piece.
Our bike however is a monocoque where the entire main triangle, along with bb & headtube including bearing races, is molded in one piece with continuous fibers throughout.
Being bespoke, we also don't need to play averages when calculating the layup for the rider.

/a


I would disagree with you suggesting to have access to more advanced composites than Criterion Composites. At best the composites you have access to are on the same level. Considering how much strength testing big companies do, how does the A2J compare?

As with regards to aerodynamics, bike specific experience has many perks as there are tricks that are learned over the years. With bike specific code and hundreds of wind tunnel tests and refined testing procedure, you get direct data correlation to other bikes made and to the CFD model. Not just with the bike, but with rider, wheels, components, and cables. Everything must be simulated as a system accurately, and at yaw. It's obviously not about the processing power anymore, the correlation (to real world data collection, and to tunnel) is everything, and that is still something that F1 teams have trouble with. This is a different Reynold's number than F1. Cervelo has pushed longer than most in the aero bike game, and independent tests have shone that their aero bikes do deliver (and often more than other companies).

You make an AMAZING product which is fully custom and thus has potential to go beyond a "production R&D prototype" RCA which is made to trickle the tech down to the other bikes in the range. If the RCA was fully custom, I reckon they could get the weight for some people under 600 grams. But then I'm not sure it would meet Cervelo's strength testing

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andy2
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by andy2

Justkeep, our engineers come from a hypercar and aerospace background and our main business is engineering consultancy for the big names in the bicycle industry. We are eminently aware of the difference between bikes and F1 cars, as are Lotus btwy;).
rolobikes

justkeepedaling
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Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)

by justkeepedaling

:P As a burgeoning aerospace engineer, I can understand where you are coming from. Not all aero is made equal :)

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andy2
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by andy2

We're hiring!!
rolobikes

Permon
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am

by Permon

andy2 wrote:
Our bike however is a monocoque where the entire main triangle, along with bb & headtube including bearing races, is molded in one piece with continuous fibers throughout.
Being bespoke, we also don't need to play averages when calculating the layup for the rider.



As far as I know, R5 / R5Ca's entire main triangle, along with bb & headtube including is molded in one piece with continuous fibers throughout..... R3 is a different story (BB shell bonded later).

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andy2
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by andy2

You're right the RCA is a monocoque mainframe w the chainstays and seatstays bonded in later.
This requires great skill and care!
rolobikes

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WonderSausage
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:51 pm

by WonderSausage

I have a Madone 7 on order and it's not the Vapor. I don't know if it's due to conditions in the Seattle area or what, but all of my bikes have multiple rock chips on the chainstays. My current Madone 6 has about half a dozen of them, paint-deep. If it weren't for the paint protection, they'd be nicking the carbon layup. Sure, you could wrap the chainstays in clear plastic but that's ugly and costs a few grams. Maybe not as much as the paint, who knows. How much is the frame gonna weigh after it gets back from Calfee with a repair patch in place? Durability has to count for something, or else we'd all save weight by leaving the grease out of the headset :)

by Weenie


jcumpstay
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:26 am

by jcumpstay

Received word back from the LBS here in Australia. six to eight week wait for the RCA frameset and $11,000 AU. I still can't believe they market this thing with the heavy Rotor gear!

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