Frame size, new bike fitting, questions

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
flimsy
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:47 am

by flimsy

zefs wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:33 pm
Your inseam is not small for your height, 54 seems like the better size as the 56 has longer reach and stack by a bit, compared to your F5.
Thank you for the reply Zefs, I have some additional info here that may be of use from a bike fit I had done

saddle height (from bb) : 730mm
saddle position: 55mm behind bb
stem length 105mm
saddle to stem drop: 100mm
top centre of saddle to front of stem 710mm
headtube size 120mm (not including headset)
reach: 389mm
stack: 526mm
virtual size: 545mm

The bike itself looks tiny when compared to the 53cm Kona in my shed despite being a 54

edit: may also be worth mentioning that I'm very rarely in the drops, as I find the bars the most comfortable and then the hoods, so maybe a larger headtube and stack would change that?

by Weenie


zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Yes, the longer stack would help with that. There are handlebars with lower/higher drop as well that you can use to adjust the position further.

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silvalis
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Location: Aus

by silvalis

I second that 54. A 56 would feel too high and forward in comparison and the SL6 54 is taller than your current bike. It's got a stack I'd expect to see on a bike 1 size smaller.
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3Pio
Posts: 1252
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

I need little help regarding Cannondale SuperSixEvo HiMod (2019 model, not the new model) sizing...

im 175 cm, 82.5 cm inseam.. My BB to top of the saddle height is 72.7cm

At a moment i have two bikes:

1. Colnago C60 in 50S size (547 stack, 383 reach) , using there 110mm Deda -7 deg stem, Deda handlebar Superleggero (75mm reach/130mm drop) and this seem to be perfect for me

Under the stem of C60 using regular headset cap (15mm), and 7 mm of spacers (headset+spacers = 22mm)

I did not like slow steering at the beggining, but since then i get lower and replaced the handlebar (narrower, 40 cm c-c), and now seem to be perfect...

2. Cannondale CAAD12 in 52 size ( 536 stack, 381 reach) (2018 model, i guess same geometry as SuperSixEvoHi mod Im interested about)

Here i have comfortable position with this setup: 115mm Deda -7 deg stem, Deda Handlebar Deda Zero100 (75mm reach/130mm drop) and using big headset cap (25mm) and 7mm spacers

On this setup i have long rides no problem regarding comfort, like responsivness.. The only drawback i have is a bit of nervous handling going high speed (i guess because of short wheelbase), but in same time it can be fun going tight curves going a bit slower...



If i go SuperSixEvo HiMod 54, regard the stack will be fine (551 stack), but reach (387mm) will determine to use 105mm stem if i like to have same position as i have on my other bikes.. Not sure if stem on shorter side, will not ruin the handling...

Also since this size have a bit bigger wheelbase, i guess it will have more stable feeling vs my 52 caad12, and i guess i wont loose too much of responsivness and direct handling i like on my caad12?

Also not sure if i go 54, will make all the experience feeling too big...


So what is ur opinions? Should i go again 52, or 54 will be better size for me?


Thanks

zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Seems like the differences are small so either would work. On the 54 you would probably use no spacers, too.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

Having issues with the bike fit on my new bike. We have settled with 40mm less reach than the last bike and still having trouble working some things out. The setup on my last bike was almost "TT bike"-like where I had the saddle slammed forward and a long and low stem. That "modern" setup came to the detriment of overall bike handling and confidence but was aero and great for power production. I was also sitting on the nose of the saddle with half of the saddle not being used. Working with a fitter/coworker who I trust now to get my saddle in the right position (plumb line) and it is pretty much slammed all the way back with a 25mm offset seat post. The problem I am having is finding a short nose saddle so that I can rotate my hips without my private parts hitting the nose of the saddle. The solution for this before was moving forward on the nose of the saddle but apparently, this is not a good idea or proper form on the bike.
The curveball comes in when we try to find a short nose saddle that is narrow enough to work with my narrow pelvis. So far I have tried the Toupe 130mm which feels great on the hoods but if I bend my elbows on the hoods or move to the drops I sit on areas which should not be sat on. On the hoods, it is the best saddle I have tried so far. The prologo dimension in 142 didn't work either as I would be unable to sit on the back of the saddle and would move to the nose of the saddle. The power 143 and the power arc 143 also didn't work because of the "wings" of the saddle digging into my thighs.
I think I am looking for a short nose narrow saddle, which doesn't seem to exist. I am forced to use a stack of spacers even though I am able to rotate my hips and produce power. On order, I have a berk Dila 140mm and Shimano pro stealth 142mm. Is there any other saddle I should try?
Something crazy like an smp, ism, sitero etc? I am doing something completely wrong?
I am frustrated and discouraged but really want to figure this out. Any help would be appreciated.
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silvalis
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Location: Aus

by silvalis

Maybe a SMP kryt3 (I hear these are firm) or a SMP T series - a T3 (narrow) or a T4 (std). These saddles don't have your typical SMP hammock which would cause your bits to hit the nose.

There's the SMP F30c as well, but I understand that these are flatter across the breadth and at the back/wings which may cause the same issue as you mentioned. Regular SMPs (eg, the first ones I mentioned) are quite rounded - which I think Steve Hogg calls tumblehome.

Note that with all SMPs, you'll have to refit the setback - comparatively you sit very far rearwards on an SMP.
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TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:00 am

Something crazy like an smp, ism, sitero etc? I am doing something completely wrong?
I am frustrated and discouraged but really want to figure this out. Any help would be appreciated.

I use a Selle SMP Blaster and it’s 131mm wide (I think). Some of the unpadded and bare carbon ones are even narrower. ISM’s PN line is in that 130mm range too.

I don’t think it’s necessarily bad if you “scoot up” a small amount in an aggressive position, especially in high power situations. You end up sitting on your narrow pubic rami when you rotate your pelvis forward. You may also try tilting the saddle down a couple degrees.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

silvalis wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:33 pm
Maybe a SMP kryt3 (I hear these are firm) or a SMP T series - a T3 (narrow) or a T4 (std). These saddles don't have your typical SMP hammock which would cause your bits to hit the nose.

There's the SMP F30c as well, but I understand that these are flatter across the breadth and at the back/wings which may cause the same issue as you mentioned. Regular SMPs (eg, the first ones I mentioned) are quite rounded - which I think Steve Hogg calls tumblehome.
From my understanding, the ISM and T3 both are designed to be set up in a way that you are sitting on the nose of the saddle which is exactly what I am trying to avoid. Although this position is comfortable and powerful for me, it forces me to stand while climbing and negatively affects my ability to handle the bike; especially while descending.
The kyrt3 seems like exactly what I am looking for (other than weight and price :roll: ). I believe you are right in that the traditional SMP hammock will not work for me but if I tilt it like @THY suggests/does, I might be able to make it work. Obviously, I need to test and try it to figure that out.
The F30c will not work for sure. I will also be trying the Selle Italia SLR Boost as it seems to have a less pronounced "wing" and comes in 130mm.
This search is not fun or easy.
Thanks for your help guys!
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Since Italian saddle brands make everything confusing, here's a summary of SMP options.

They have two traditional shell designs based on the Forma and Composit. The Composit has less sag and is less rounded in cross-section. The Forma has a narrower nose in addition to more sag and being more rounded.

Based on Composit shell:
Full Carbon / Carbon = bare carbon
Composit = no padding
Blaster = minimal padding
Vulkor = wider, no padding
Nymber = wider, minimal padding

Based on Forma shell:
Full Carbon Lite / Carbon Lite = bare carbon
Forma = no padding
Dynamic = minimal padding
Drakon = regular padding

I left out the heavily padded models and other older styles. I don't really recommend the Evolution/Stratos/Glider style saddles either... the Composit line suits most Evolution line riders. I wouldn't recommend the F30/F30C to anyone. They're just like regular saddles from other brands...except they weigh ton more. The Kryt3? Never seen it in person, didn't bother to test one.

icantaffordcycling
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:03 am

by icantaffordcycling

I was using this chart and was really confused. No idea what waist size has to do with sit bone width but with my narrow sit bones/hips I assumed I was an XS. With your explanation, I now somewhat understand what I am doing. Composit or blaster for me. I am guessing that the 2mm difference in width between the two is the padding?
The traditional SMP is probably going to be one of the last saddles I try because I can already see the nose giving me problems.
Pro stealth had the same problem as the power/power arch with the wings digging into my hamstrings. Found the Kryt for cheap overseas and ordered it because it is pretty much exactly what I am looking for, a narrow short-nose saddle; although the weight is a little ridiculous.

Between the berk dila 140, kryt3, and slr boost I hope I can find one I like. Otherwise, PN 1.0 and composit/blaster are next.

Hopefully, there is not something else fundamentally wrong with my bike fit causing now saddle to work at all. This is a fitter/co-worker that although I trust, uses a quite old-fashioned mentality for a bike fit. Went from a 120mm stem//369mm reach//77mm hb reach --> 90mm stem//375mm reach//79mm hb reach and a much further back saddle.
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TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:58 am
Composit or blaster for me. I am guessing that the 2mm difference in width between the two is the padding?
The traditional SMP is probably going to be one of the last saddles I try because I can already see the nose giving me problems.

Yes, the length and width difference between those two comes down to padding. Also yes, SMP weights and US retail prices are shocking.

Schulzy
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:45 am

by Schulzy

Hi all, after a bit of advice.

I'm around 182cm (5 ft 11.5 inch) tall with an 88cm (34.65") inseam so I seem to be on longer leg, shorter torso side of things, my saddle height is 78.5cm from centre BB to top of seat (still dialing this in).

I currently have an M/L TCR SL, the fit has never quite worked for me, I've always felt a little too stretched out and have even moved my saddle further forward to get it to feel right. I've been tempted as of late to go down a frame size to the M. What are your guys thoughts as far as fit goes? either run a M/L and drop down to a 100mm stem or go an M frame with a 110 - 120mm stem. Having the shorter torso, I'm leaning more towards a smaller frame, but I will probably have a fair ammount of seat post to bar drop on the smaller frame.

Any help would be appreciated.

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silvalis
Posts: 678
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Location: Aus

by silvalis

icantaffordcycling wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:58 am
I was using this chart and was really confused. No idea what waist size has to do with sit bone width but with my narrow sit bones/hips I assumed I was an XS. With your explanation, I now somewhat understand what I am doing. Composit or blaster for me. I am guessing that the 2mm difference in width between the two is the padding?
The traditional SMP is probably going to be one of the last saddles I try because I can already see the nose giving me problems.
Pro stealth had the same problem as the power/power arch with the wings digging into my hamstrings. Found the Kryt for cheap overseas and ordered it because it is pretty much exactly what I am looking for, a narrow short-nose saddle; although the weight is a little ridiculous.

Between the berk dila 140, kryt3, and slr boost I hope I can find one I like. Otherwise, PN 1.0 and composit/blaster are next.

Hopefully, there is not something else fundamentally wrong with my bike fit causing now saddle to work at all. This is a fitter/co-worker that although I trust, uses a quite old-fashioned mentality for a bike fit. Went from a 120mm stem//369mm reach//77mm hb reach --> 90mm stem//375mm reach//79mm hb reach and a much further back saddle.
This is also a good resource for a working description of the older models.

The Kryt shell is apparently a lot firmer than your typical SMP. My Dynamic and Drakon shell flexes quite a lot. Hope it works for you.

I don't believe that SMPs really require anything out of the ordinary in terms of fit. As a starter, I'd measure an arbitrary width (I like to use 10cm for some reason - and lets call it the 'centre' of the saddle) and set the saddle up in the same position, then bump it nose down a couple of deg. This will most likely see the saddle pushed forward on the rail compared to your current one. SMP rails are also a lot longer too.
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by Weenie


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silvalis
Posts: 678
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Location: Aus

by silvalis

Schulzy wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:36 pm
Hi all, after a bit of advice.

I'm around 182cm (5 ft 11.5 inch) tall with an 88cm (34.65") inseam so I seem to be on longer leg, shorter torso side of things, my saddle height is 78.5cm from centre BB to top of seat (still dialing this in).

I currently have an M/L TCR SL, the fit has never quite worked for me, I've always felt a little too stretched out and have even moved my saddle further forward to get it to feel right. I've been tempted as of late to go down a frame size to the M. What are your guys thoughts as far as fit goes? either run a M/L and drop down to a 100mm stem or go an M frame with a 110 - 120mm stem. Having the shorter torso, I'm leaning more towards a smaller frame, but I will probably have a fair ammount of seat post to bar drop on the smaller frame.

Any help would be appreciated.
I'd change the stem for starters. That's what? $20-30?

Your saddle-bar drop/number of spacers/core strength/flexibility would really determine if you can ride an M. If not, then you will either have to just run the shorter stem or buy an appropriate bike for long legs/short torso - eg, a defy.

Without seeing/knowing anything anything about you, I don't believe your dimensions are especially long legged - and the ML is the appropriate frame for you
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