New groupset time.....some questions.

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
BigPoser
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:42 pm

by BigPoser

I currently run Campy Chorus from 2014. I recently finished building my first frame and I'll be swapping my current group onto the new frame. Soooo, I will need a new group for my Fuji. I was thinking I'd get the new Chorus, but a friend of mine keeps pushing me to Ultegra or DA di2. Thinking DA is out due to cost, but Ultegra is feasible.

So, is 8050 a downgrade from Chorus? I really love Campy, and have been hesitant to go electronic, but lately I've been thinking about it.

I will also be getting a crank based PM in the process, and was going to run Praxis carbon crank with a P2M PM with the Chorus. P2M doesn't have anything for Shimano, but I supposed I could always go the same route anyway.

Thoughts and opinions welcomed, thanks.

Brandon

hogehoge
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:59 pm

by hogehoge

P2M does a four bolt spider (on Rotor arms) for Shimano chairnings

BigPoser
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:42 pm

by BigPoser

hogehoge wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 pm
P2M does a four bolt spider (on Rotor arms) for Shimano chairnings
Really? Do you have a link? Thanks.

cdncyclist
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:10 am

by cdncyclist

Aside from the urging of your friend, it isn't clear to me why you are going with Shimano for your new build. Why not stick with what you, as you state, 'love'? If you are interested in trying electronic, why not Campy EPS chorus? While it is fun to try new things, having 2 bikes with different systems might not be ideal, especially if you don't have a clearly articulated and sound reason for doing so.

Anecdotally, as someone who used Shimano for a long time, I tried Campy, and while I liked it, I didn't see any huge advantages... but there were disadvangates of using 2 systems, from trivial (different shifting mechanism and muscle memory) to more bothersome (needing 2 different tools such as cassette removal, not quite as seamless wheel swapping, etc). I ended up transitioning back to Shimano just to keep everything simpler.

BigPoser
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:42 pm

by BigPoser

cdncyclist wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:14 pm
Aside from the urging of your friend, it isn't clear to me why you are going with Shimano for your new build. Why not stick with what you, as you state, 'love'? If you are interested in trying electronic, why not Campy EPS chorus? While it is fun to try new things, having 2 bikes with different systems might not be ideal, especially if you don't have a clearly articulated and sound reason for doing so.

Anecdotally, as someone who used Shimano for a long time, I tried Campy, and while I liked it, I didn't see any huge advantages... but there were disadvangates of using 2 systems, from trivial (different shifting mechanism and muscle memory) to more bothersome (needing 2 different tools such as cassette removal, not quite as seamless wheel swapping, etc). I ended up transitioning back to Shimano just to keep everything simpler.
Thanks for you reply. You make some very valid points. I would be weird to have two bikes with two different shifting mechs and all. I have thought of Chorus EPS, but can't seem to locate pricing on it. I also understand that they don't have a V3 of the group and to upgrade is like $500 more. Not sure if V2 is all that bad since I've never had it, but I think I'd want to best option, while trying to keep costs somewhat contained.

shimmeD
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

I've had this wild thought that might gain traction with you. I think this is more doable with rim brakes.
Have your beloved Campag levers gutted out and use climbing shifters in lieu for Di2 shifting. I'd start off with rear only first and also see how Di2 plays with Campag cassette. I think it'll be perfect to mount the climbing shifters (mods as per thread right here in this forum) where the thumb shifter was removed. There is also a thread here on installing bar end Di2 controls, and of course you'll need all the Di2 parts like rear der, battery, cables.
I do wonder if someone hasn't already done this.
Less is more.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

If you aren't in a HUGE rush you may want to consider waiting til the 12 spd dust settles and get a DA or Campy 11 Electronic group at a lower price... Its a ways off, but expect EPS in North America early 2019, and rumor is the DA 12 is closer than we think.. (im only going off rumors.. and rumors are about as accurate as the weatherman)

AJS914
Posts: 2003
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

If you like Campy I'd stick with Campy.

Of course, it's pretty easy to go to any bike shop and road test something with Ultegra if you really have the hankering..

Boshk
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:59 am

by Boshk

BigPoser wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:57 pm

So, is 8050 a downgrade from Chorus? I really love Campy, and have been hesitant to go electronic, but lately I've been thinking about it.

I will also be getting a crank based PM in the process, and was going to run Praxis carbon crank with a P2M PM with the Chorus. P2M doesn't have anything for Shimano, but I supposed I could always go the same route anyway.

Brandon
I wouldn't call it a downgrade if you went Ultegra di2, in some ways, its an upgrade.
di2=once setup properly, you will never have to touch it again except charge it, but then again I hear mech SR is pretty much the same, no real 'cable stretch' if everything is seated properly.

I was Chorus too before I purchased my Quarq PM with DA chainrings. Didn't have the budget to pay $1800 for a Campagnolo P2M pm. Loved the thumb shifting, I still miss it when cresting over a hill.

I know you said you WANT a crank based PM, if there is even a slight chance you could consider pedal pm, then you can remain campy. There is Garmin, Favero, soon to be SRM....

Cost wise:
R8050 di2=more expensive than DA R9100 mechanical
Chorus similar to DA R9100
SR 11 speed price is dropping due to 12 speed.

One last thing, do you or will you ever need a 11-32?
Campy doesn't have a 'higher end' 11-32, only Potenza. They only offer 11-32 in their new 12 speed.

Shimano offers 11-32 and 11-34 in Ultegra and 11-30 in DA.
Colnago C60

DJT21
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:35 pm

by DJT21

Chorus group was under £800 not that long ago, it's now close to £1000. If you're using a different chainset anyway, could you not buy maybe Chorus shifters and mechs, Potenza brakes/cassette/chain to lower the costs?

I dunno, at under £800 I'd have said Chorus, but now, I reckon I'd probably take Dura Ace (which doesn't seemed to have gone up in price at all) or DI2

Digger90
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:34 pm

by Digger90

People who love Campy tend not to like the feel of Shimano.

People who love Shimano tend not to like the feel of Campy.


I ran DuraAce for 10 years - then Record for 10 years. They're both great and function well but are very different. Every rider develops a feel for what they prefer.

Best way to be sure is borrow (or rent) a bike with Ultegra or DA on it and go for a ride.
Last edited by Digger90 on Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RussellS
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am

by RussellS

BigPoser wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:57 pm
I currently run Campy Chorus from 2014. I was thinking I'd get the new Chorus, but a friend of mine keeps pushing me to Ultegra or DA di2. Thinking DA is out due to cost, but Ultegra is feasible.
So, is 8050 a downgrade from Chorus? I really love Campy, and have been hesitant to go electronic, but lately I've been thinking about it.
I have four bikes with Campagnolo 9,10 speed and three bikes with Shimano 10 speed. One is Di2. Never ever had a problem remembering how each shifts or works. All work perfectly all the time. Shimano has a better selection of bigger cassettes if mountain climbing is in your future. Long ago when I bought my first Chorus 9 Ergo bike, I'd have slapped you silly for even suggesting Ultegra was comparable. Chorus was equal to Dura Ace. With Record one notch up. But today, from Super Record down to Veloce and Dura Ace down to Tiagra, I don't believe you could tell the difference in any of them unless you were told and saw what you were using. They all work perfectly. Buy one or the other for prestige, not functionality. As for Di2, I like it. Its fun. Its better, but we are talking thousandths of a percentage better. Everything works great so there is no performance difference amongst any group. For something new and different, give Di2 a try if you want. Selecting a groupset today is about like forcing someone against their will to choose between a Mclaren, Ferrari, Lomborghini, or Porsche. Terrible to make someone make such a harsh choice. Maybe the best suggestion is to put all your budget choices into a hat and draw the winner. Your budget does dictate which choices you have.

octave
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm

by octave

on the note of having two different bikes set up with two different systems-- i have a bike with sram red 22, and another set up with shimano ultegra r8000. i don't have any problems switching between the two.

i used to ride campagnolo chorus, but eventually went over to shimano because my right thumb is jacked, thus the thumb shifting on campagnolo was not ideal... i always missed the much higher tactile feedback of campagnolo compared to shimano's much more 'gentle' feedback... which i think is why i love sram! very tactile, and no thumb lever so my thumb doesn't have to suffer from any inferiority complex.

that being said, shimano is pretty slick (most of my experience is dura ace 9000 and ultegra 6800).

ParisCarbon
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Agree on switching bikes.. My Cannondale has Super Record Mech, Shiv TT has DA Di2, Sagan Camo Tarmac has DA Di2, one of my cross bikes has old Campy 10, and my Stevens Super Prestige Disc has Ultegra Di2... I think all of the groupsets have their pluses and minuses. I was a Campy guy for 30 years.. the S word was pure evil in the house... now I equally like both.. the EPS 12 speed has me curious what is cooking, and that may go on my SL6, or we'll see what DA offers for 12.. the rumor mill says its coming sooner than later... Ive never used EPS, but if I was able to make a hybrid model and brand it myself, Id take Campagnolo's hood design with the Dura Ace shifting system and sprint shifters, the DA brakes, Campy derailleurs, and crank undecided.. I like the look of the new SR12 crank... but it would definately be the Ultra Torque design.. all my bikes are BB30 or PF30 and I have to say I HATE IT!!

hogehoge
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:59 pm

by hogehoge

BigPoser wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:13 pm
hogehoge wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:03 pm
P2M does a four bolt spider (on Rotor arms) for Shimano chairnings
Really? Do you have a link? Thanks.
For example
https://www.power2max.com/en/product/ng ... crank-set/ and select 110-4S spider option

Supported cranksets listed here
http://www.power2max.com.au/support/selection-guide/
"Here you can choose between 110 BCD (Compact) and 130 BCD. For select models (Rotor 3D, 3D+/3DF and FSA K-Force Light and Gossamer) we also offer the Shimano 4-bolt pattern."

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