Best Hub Ratchet and Freehub Pawl grease

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Getter
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Location: So Cal

by Getter

I just swapped out a Reynolds freehub from Campag to Shimano. When I pulled the hub off, there was a white grease...but i their tech doc...they recommended Slick Honey

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

You won't hear me complaining if by some miracle all that white grease were to be turned into honey.... :lol:

O.K...So by dismantling the hub you found or more likely did not find what you were expecting?

Maybe you should consider writing a book along the lines of "How to recognize your Saints" but based on recognizing grease instead? :lol:

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

by Weenie


thisisatest
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by thisisatest

Red Devil grease sure reminds me of the old Bullshot grease too. Super Web grease is totally different. Think string cheese. Softer, gooey-er.

KLabs
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

thisisatest wrote:Red Devil grease sure reminds me of the old Bullshot grease too. Super Web grease is totally different. Think string cheese. Softer, gooey-er.

Hi thisisatest, thanks :)

WeightySteve
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by WeightySteve

The freewheel noise of my Lightweights has been driving me crazy since I bought them I hate loud ratchets.

I thought because Carbonsports sell them dry (no grease) that was how they were supposed to be.

Came across this thread on Thursday evening, and immediately ordered some DTSwiss "Special" grease. Applied it today, and it runs super quiet now. Love it.

Super thanks for this thread.

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JKolmo
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by JKolmo

fdegrove wrote:Hi,

Short of DLC, I'd recommend Krytox (PFPE) oil or grease for both ceramic hybrid bearings and classic steel contacting surfaces as it bonds to these extremely well and does not get removed easily. Altough similar in formulation to PTFE (Teflon to you and me) it lowers fricrtion way beyond it and as said, it reduces friction in an almost permanent way.

It will even reduce friction on Campa's much touted CULT bearings which are quieted down by a parafin based oil. A neat solution but it's actually adding friction.....

Sorry, I'm ranting way beyond the attention span of most of you already.... Give it a try anyway and report back.

Ciao, ;)


OK, that's an interesting tip. But from where do you source this Krytox PFPE stuff? I consulted google with no particular success, at least for a European source.

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

Krytox is a Dupont De Nemours brandname just in the same way Teflon is.
It is however not so easy to source in Europe for an individual as the only bicycle related company that uses it AFAIK is Ceramic Speed.
Through their dealers or directly from them (whatever access you can get through your status) you can purchase syringes filled with Krytox loaded grease. Type 225 I think it is, which to my taste and use is a little to high in viscosity. IOW, a little too thick.
In France you'd get it from Dulight, for instance, but I'm well aware the internet isn't really offering much of it to the punter.

Personally I came in touch with it through a Finish Line product who are still offering a chain lube based on a wax lube loaded with Krytox. While I wasn't all that impressed by the wax on a chain I was absolutely excited by the effect of the Krytox when I lubed my aging Bora Ultra USB bearings with it.
The wax is easily separated from the rest of the lube by just letting it sink to the bottom of the container. You don't want the wax in your bearings as it tends to solidify once the solvents have flashed off.

If it's oil with Krytox as an additive you're after then the only way to get it is by buying it from the USA. I intend to do this but I do not as yet know if it can be shipped freely as a chemical. (I think it's OK)
It is also a great product to use on bushing type bearings such as found in pedals, pulleys and indeed freehubs.

In a nutshell it enters and bonds to a metal surface and stays there to reduce friction. Once added it is very difficult to undo.
Reducing friction alos reduces wear so that makes it a win-win, Krytox or not. 8)

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

KLabs
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

WeightySteve wrote:The freewheel noise of my Lightweights has been driving me crazy since I bought them I hate loud ratchets.

I thought because Carbonsports sell them dry (no grease) that was how they were supposed to be.
Came across this thread on Thursday evening, and immediately ordered some DTSwiss "Special" grease. Applied it today, and it runs super quiet now. Love it.

Super thanks for this thread.

Hi WeightySteve, yes you are right :)

Freehubs should come with grease or oil, or should come with instructions which indicate the recommended grease or oil that should be used on the ratchet teeth, pawls, and seals :)
Last edited by KLabs on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JKolmo
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by JKolmo

fdegrove wrote:
If it's oil with Krytox as an additive you're after then the only way to get it is by buying it from the USA. I intend to do this but I do not as yet know if it can be shipped freely as a chemical. (I think it's OK)
It is also a great product to use on bushing type bearings such as found in pedals, pulleys and indeed freehubs.


Thanks for the reply!

So maybe this ebay offered product is the stuff to go for? (seems as if they ship worldwide): http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPONT-KRYTOX-G ... 0608496816" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

That one should work fine.

This is the one I had in mind for bearings:

http://www.derbychamp.com/Krytox-GPL-100-p/760.htm

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

KLabs
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

fdegrove wrote:Hi,
That one should work fine.
This is the one I had in mind for bearings:
http://www.derbychamp.com/Krytox-GPL-100-p/760.htm
Ciao, ;)

Hi fdegrove, do you think Krytox is that good that you are happy to use it as an oil :)

How many kms have you noticed before you need to re-oil ... thanks :)

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

Let me just say that wherever one would consider to use PTFE (aka Teflon) loaded oil, Krytox does a far better job.
So much so that I don't understand why its use is not more widely spread.
Maintenaince would be similar to but possibly reduced compared to all other stuff run on oil.

Used in the right places it really is the best oil additive I know of.

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

KLabs
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

Hi fdegrove, thanks, do you know if Krytox can be mixed with lithium or aluminum based marine greases w/o any issues arising? :)

Also, can Krytox be used with ceramic bearings w/o any issues arising? :)

Hope you don't mind me asking ... I know some chain oils (if it gets passed the seals) can damage hub and jockey wheel ceramic bearings and not all oils and greases mix together ... thanks :)

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

Not being a chemical engineer, I'm afraid I can't really answer that. However, from the little I know, I'm not quite understanding why you'd actually want to do that for cycling purposes.
Krytox grease does exist in a variety of viscosities suiting an equal number of applications. Depending on load, revs, exposure to contaminants and what have you.

Also, can Krytox be used with ceramic bearings w/o any issues arising?


Absolutely.
From my perspective there's little use for a hybrid ceramic bearing unless you lube it with Krytox grease (which is what the guys at Ceramic Speed do) or be more adventurous and use oil. (Krytox oaded oil, that is)
One proviso for the latter is that you may need an arguably deeper pocket in that it may not last that long, it obviuosly will need more frequent relubing too.

There really is no industrial bearing that is factually nor actually designed and lubed correctly for cycling use. They are all designed with heavy loads and high revs in mind.

As an engineering consultant CEO we used to say "ce qui peut le plus peut le moins" , which boils to let's overdesign the thing so we'll know it will work and last.
In cycling you need to put that compromise in a different perspective. You want the best possible performance at really low revs, low load and low friction. None of these bearings are designed with that in mind and as counterinuitive as it it may seem what could do more than what it was designed for is now actually dragging you down.

The ideal type of bearing for cycling purposes is (a few exceptions notwithstanding) the cup and cone bearing. It was what has been used and choosen years ago by engineers and still is to this day the best choice overall from an engineering POV as well as a performance POV.

That's my POV from an ideal world's perspective anyway.

Ciao, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

by Weenie


KLabs
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

Hi fdegrove, thanks, I was thinking perhaps after applying the oil, which bonds to all surfaces, if a liberal amount of grease could then be applied as a backup ... :)

To apply:
1.Place two drops of Krytox on the axle shaft where the wheel will rest.
2.Gently turn the axle with your fingers to allow the Krytox to coat the shaft where the wheel will rest.
3.Place a wheel onto the axle shaft.
4.Spin the wheel a few times and allow to come to a stop.
5.Remove the wheel.
6.Gently wipe off the excess oil from the axle with a clean soft rag.

... apply liberal amount of grease as backup

7.Reinstall the wheel back onto the axle.
8.Repeat for the other axles and wheels.

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