Best 11 speed chain for Dura Ace Mechanical???

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Titanium22
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:57 pm

by Titanium22

I have full DA setup inc chain, 3000 miles and the chain is getting ready for replacement.

No problem with the DA, except I had to buy a KMC missing link.

Should I go DA again? or

KMC DLC?
KMC SL?
KMC EL?

Sram RED?

Something Else???

I have searched the forum, and was suprised to not find anything on this.

Thx

clarkson
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:23 am

by clarkson

No empirical evidence to support it, but I have found shimano chains work best on shimano drivetrains. Aside from cool colors, the KMCs weren't any better, and seemed more noisy.

by Weenie


fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

I'm on Dura Ace now, but keep using ultegra cassettes for the cost savings, plus i believe they are slightly more durable.
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

eric01
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am

by eric01

Dura ace. Or rather the xtr 11 speed chain. If memory serves, after 11 speed xtr was introduced shimano discontinued old dura ace chain and unified on the xtr model.
AX Lightness Vial Evo, Carl Strong Titanium

seanblurr
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by seanblurr

I've seen no difference between DA, Ultegra, XTR, Record, Red, or Force.
Instagram @seanblurr

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Benno
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by Benno

I agree with Clarkson. I find the duraace chains run the quietest and even seem to shift just a teeny bit smoother on my shimano drive trains (Di2 DuraAce and mech Ultegra) . This is strictly between shimano and kmc.
Light. Strong. Cheap. Pick one.

Ozrider
Posts: 1021
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

by Ozrider

I've use DA 9000 and KMC X11SL - I was a great fan of the KMC 10 speed chains on my SRAM drivetrain but I find the Dura Ace chains to be really good with DA9000.
Definitely seem to run quieter and last a bit longer, and generally slightly cheaper.


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Ozrider - Western Australia
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boots2000
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm

by boots2000

I use SRAM Red or XX1- whatever I can get a better deal on.
They run great and I like the way they look- much shinier than a Dura-Ace chain.
I buy a stack of whatever I can get cheapest-

srshaw
Posts: 160
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:06 pm

by srshaw

Benno wrote:I agree with Clarkson. I find the duraace chains run the quietest and even seem to shift just a teeny bit smoother on my shimano drive trains (Di2 DuraAce and mech Ultegra) . This is strictly between shimano and kmc.


This. I have always been a fan of kmc chains for everything, but my current 11sp kmc on da 9000 (OK with rotor chainset) has all sorts of creeks and sqeaks. It all started when I gave the chain a good clean with the park tool chain cleaner.

I have lubed everything, greased my speedplays and am now suspecting it may be the chain. I get about 2hrs of quietness then gradually things start to squeak. Not sure which model I have but its gold coloured. I'll probably try a shimano chain next.

I suppose the frustrating thing it could be anything, so I am not certain the chain is at fault.

salesguy
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:27 pm

by salesguy

Titanium22 wrote:I have full DA setup inc chain, 3000 miles and the chain is getting ready for replacement.

No problem with the DA, except I had to buy a KMC missing link.

Thx


3000 miles is kind of light on mileage, I usually get much more than that. Probably ok if you do a lot of rain/messy riding.

Why would you need a messing link? The Shimano DA pin, properly installed, is all you need. My chains come off exactly once - when it's worn out. Removing for cleaning is unnecessary and adds to the likelihood of a problem.

I'd recommend an HG900 chain every single time. Smooth, quiet, relatively cheap. No way I'd mess with a SRAM chain for 11spd.

Titanium22
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:57 pm

by Titanium22

salesguy wrote:
Titanium22 wrote:I have full DA setup inc chain, 3000 miles and the chain is getting ready for replacement.

No problem with the DA, except I had to buy a KMC missing link.

Thx


3000 miles is kind of light on mileage, I usually get much more than that. Probably ok if you do a lot of rain/messy riding.

Why would you need a messing link? The Shimano DA pin, properly installed, is all you need. My chains come off exactly once - when it's worn out. Removing for cleaning is unnecessary and adds to the likelihood of a problem.

I'd recommend an HG900 chain every single time. Smooth, quiet, relatively cheap. No way I'd mess with a SRAM chain for 11spd.


Thank you for all who have posted.

In regards to the above, I do ride in all weathers, but generally not in heavy rain, unless I get caught in it. However the roads in the UK, are often wet.

I have the park CC2 chain checker, the one with the twisty bit. After 3000 miles it measure's the 0.75 mark which means change the chain. However, I have read that these and any other chain checkers, measure between the rollers and so give an in accurate figure, as the rollers internal diameter will have got slightly bigger, making the chain look more stretched than it is? I presume.

Sheldon Brown says, "There are also special tools made to measure chain wear; these are a bit more convenient, though by no means necessary, and most -- except for the Shimano TL-CN40 and TL-CN41 -- are inaccurate because they allow roller play to confound the measurement of link-pin wear".

If I measure rivet to rivet centre, over 12", then after 3000 miles the length has increased by only 1/32"

Below is copied from Sheldon Brown;

Measuring Chain Wear

The standard way to measure chain wear is with a ruler or steel tape measure. This can be done without removing the chain from the bicycle. The normal technique is to measure a one-foot length, placing an inch mark of the ruler at the side of one link pin, then looking at the corresponding link pin 12 complete links away. On a new, unworn chain, this link pin will also line up exactly with an inch mark. With a worn chain, the link pin will be past the inch mark. [For accurate measurement, the chain should be held under some tension -- either on the bicycle, or hanging. Also, use a metal ruler or tape measure. Wood, plastic and cloth all can expand or shrink. Measurement is also possible with a metric ruler -- see below. -- John Allen]
This technique gives a direct measurement of the wear to the chain, and an indirect measurement of the wear to the sprockets. first, let's look at how to do this with a ruler that measures in inches.

If the link pin is less than 1/16" past the mark, all is well.
If the link pin is 1/16" past the mark, you should replace the chain, but the sprockets are probably undamaged.
If the link pin is 1/8" past the mark, you have left it too long, and the sprockets (at least the favorite ones) will be too badly worn. If you replace a chain at the 1/8" point, without replacing the sprockets, it may run OK and not skip, but the worn sprockets will cause the new chain to wear much faster than it should, until it catches up with the wear state of the sprockets.
If the link pin is past the 1/8" mark, a new chain will almost certainly skip on the worn sprockets, especially the smaller ones.


So, My Park tool says my Chain is worn out, and any further wear will ruin my sprockets. Measuring Sheldon Brown method, says its about half worn @ 1/32" over 12 inches!

Which is it? I would rather replace than wear my sprockets, but if its ok, why change it?

I don't use a chain cleaner, just a clean rag, good wipe (inc chain rings and jockeys), re-lube (wet), rotate the chainset a few times, and clean off again. sometimes I repeat this, and I do it every ride, approx 50-75 miles.

fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

'best' is rather vague. what problem are you trying to solve? durability, weight, friction, cheaper, noise?
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Trek 5200(ultegra)

Titanium22
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:57 pm

by Titanium22

fromtrektocolnago wrote:'best' is rather vague. what problem are you trying to solve? durability, weight, friction, cheaper, noise?


As I said at the top, I don't have a problem with the DA chain, its all good, and it seems most folk would say its the best for my setup anyway.

Durability, there was a test somewhere "Germany" maybe, where DA lasted marginally longer.
Weight? they are all so close at approx 230-240g is it even worth considering?
Friction, Wiggo used DA on his Hour record, albeit specially selected from a batch, and run in.
Cheaper? They are all around £30, except the KMC DLC

Are any other chains better in any respect?

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toiyuet
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Hong Kong

by toiyuet

I agree with Titanium22. I am in exactley the same situation and have to replace the chain every 4 months.

by Weenie


salesguy
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:27 pm

by salesguy

VN just did a nice article on chain wear and measuring.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/12/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-chain-wear-measurement_390085

I always measure using a ruler or measuring tape, more accurate than chain checkers and much cheaper. I would not throw out a chain at 1/32", assuming you are accurate and repeatable in the measuring technique.

I used to run wipperman and sram chains on my 9 and 10spd setups, now with DI2 and 11spd I only run the new HG900 (or HG901) chains and they work great. They are cheap enough that I see no reason to skimp on something cheaper, and I don't think more expensive KMC chains offer any advantage.

In short I'd run the HG900 chain, run it till 1/16 and replace. Pretty simple.

Oh and I only run CS-6800 cassettes and I'm pretty sure I've never worn one out (end up selling at end of season).

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