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Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:28 am
by Lewis
Can you chop and change without issues? Have Athena 11 and want to upgrade to chorus or record. I did type another thread buts its deleted or something and can't see that I have contravened any forum rules? :?

Thanks

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:34 am
by bikerjulio
There are several flavors now, and I'm assuming we are talking threaded cups.

The original UltraTorque comes as Record and SR. These are plain cups because the bearings are on the cranks.

PowerTorque cups have a bearing installed in the NDS cup.

Depending on the vintage of the Athena crankset, it could be either type. I have a UT version. The current ones are PT.

PT BB's are not compatible with UT cranks and vice versa.

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:40 am
by Arc
But with new cups upgrading should be possible.

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:48 am
by Lewis
I have a press fit internal BB on a canyon ultimate al currently.

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:56 am
by bikerjulio
OP you may not realize that there have been 2 types of Athena 11 spd crankset already. First UT and now PT.

If you have a UT crankset, then a Chorus or Record is a straight swap.

If you have PT, then you will need new cups pressing in to make the change.

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:06 am
by fdegrove
Hi,

Exactly. Let's first find out what type of Athena crank is currently in service. In case it's PT then it'll need UT cups fitted for any Chorus, Record or SR crank (or Fulcrum crank for that matter).

Do not fit SR cups unless you are installing a SR crank. SR lacks gaskets the lower end bearings require.

Ciao, ;)

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:09 pm
by Lewis
Hi guys

I had a check and its a power torque version that I have. What tools would I need to extract the existing bearings and fit new? I'd rather do it myself as I don't have a lbs that I trust currently!

Also looking at the crank sets online some of the same model seem to look different, I.e. chainring size/design, even though they'll both be 50/34 or whatever. I'll stick up pics later on to explain what I'm describing more thoroughly.

Thanks

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:44 pm
by bikerjulio
the crank instructions are here http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/ATHENA_CRANKSET_UK_08_2012.pdf

you'll need something like this to knock out the cups http://www.parktool.com/product/pressfit-bottom-bracket-bearing-tool-set-bbt-90-3

and these are the instructions for UT cup installation http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/ULTRA_TORQUE_OS_FIT_UK_05_2012.pdf For press fit BB shells you need the 46mm cups.

Instructions for UT crank installation here http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/ULTRA_TORQUE_CRANKSET_UK_06_2012.pdf. Follow them in the exact sequence spelled out. Lots of people don't understand the importance of the retaining spring.

There have been complaints about campy's PF30 cups coming loose - I suspect it's an issue of different manufacturers and frame tolerances. So, up to you whether to try them or the solution below.

There is an alternative solution, an adapter that allows standard threaded outboard cups to be used http://www.artscyclery.com/descpage-SRPF30BSAES.html

Image

and is probably much more secure. You screw the cups into the adapter first, then press each side in, with locktite. Because campy's spindle is 25mm instead of shimano std 24mm, you may need to run a 1" drill through for clearance. This looks like a solid, creak-free solution.

To get a UT crankset now, your choices are Chorus or one of the Records. The chainrings are identical part numbers across the range, so not sure what you are looking at. Chorus is the best value, but campy will be happy to take more of your money if you wish.

As for tools, you need a oversize allen wrench and a puller to get the PT crank apart. You can probably make up something with copper pipe to make a cup remover, and a cup press can be made with threaded rod, washers and nuts. Main thing is to take it slowly and make sure that cups are going in straight. If using the threaded cups on the adapters above you'll need the specific cup wrench.

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:18 pm
by Lewis

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:34 pm
by bikerjulio
both links go to about 500 images. besides that, why are you looking at Athena? thought you were upgrading?

Athena has been available in both carbon and alloy versions as well as UT and PT.

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:51 pm
by kman
Try linking to an actual web page, not a Google search.

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:17 am
by Lewis
Sorry couldn't get the actual image info on my iPad. Will sort tomorrow. I was just trying to illustrate that although the cranksets seem the same (whether it be Athena/chorus/record etc) the chain ring looks different in some of them, and they also seem to have slightly fatter crank arms. At first I thought it was just the compact chain ring but there's another difference I can't put a finger on. Its almost as if the holes in the chain ring are more circular than oval on some of them. It doesn't explain this difference on the campagnolo website from what I can see...

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:25 am
by bikerjulio
Lewis, I have to say that I think you are wasting my time.

I just told you that the chainrings are the same across the Chorus/Record line.

And now crank arms?

Come back with an intelligent question, and perhaps people will help.

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:55 am
by Permon
fdegrove wrote:Hi,

Exactly. Let's first find out what type of Athena crank is currently in service. In case it's PT then it'll need UT cups fitted for any Chorus, Record or SR crank (or Fulcrum crank for that matter).

Do not fit SR cups unless you are installing a SR crank. SR lacks gaskets the lower end bearings require.

Ciao, ;)


I run SR cups on my Record cranks. If BB shell "closed" no reason to have those gaskets in there...only if You wanna get slower :-)

Re: Campagnolo BB compatibility.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:20 pm
by Lewis
bikerjulio wrote:Lewis, I have to say that I think you are wasting my time.

I just told you that the chainrings are the same across the Chorus/Record line.

And now crank arms?

Come back with an intelligent question, and perhaps people will help.



That's not the intention. I'm not wasting your time you're just not fully understanding my question. Look at these three pics and you'll see what I mean. They are the same but look different. Look at the length of the arm that attaches to the chain ring.

Both PT:

Image

Image


And this is an Ultra Torque one:

Image