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Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:40 pm
by ergott
20 and up. I have had no demand for lower than 20 spoke count wheels and I prefer the added benefits of a few extra spokes.

Internal nipples aren't in the cards right now, but this project is young.

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:11 pm
by gospastic
Would love a version in silver.

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:11 pm
by Weenie

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:14 pm
by teleguy57
Would love a tubular version! Would make an awesome set of training/group ride wheels. Reasonable weight, great aesthetics and without the costs of carbon. Any chance that's under consideration?

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:52 am
by fdegrove
Hi,

dwaharvey wrote:I'd love to see it available with internal nipples as an option


Why would you? There's nothing to be gained but more mass towards the extremity of the rim and more trouble in case the wheel needs truing.

Actually, the entire concept of the rim is reminding me of the good ole (but major heavy) Mavic Cosmic Elite rim from pre 2011.

Ciao, ;)

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:29 am
by Bingomck
Awesome. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:51 pm
by trillo1111
As far as the question about internal nipples - correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't having a smaller hole in the rim at the nipple decrease the likelihood of cracking around the nipple? Seems with everyone making lighter rims (and especially on a version 1.0),a smaller hole (ie. internal nipple) would be a good idea as it would better preserve the integrity of the rim and better resist a nipple pulling through the rim. Nipple washers could be a band-aid instead. There is also the claim that internal nipples are more aero - but I don't know how significant that is... As a light rider, I very rarely have to true my wheels - so not the end of the world having to pull the tire off when necessary; if we were talking tubulars - I agree, it would be a real pain. Open to hear other thoughts on the matter.

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:25 pm
by angrylegs
teleguy57 wrote:Would love a tubular version! Would make an awesome set of training/group ride wheels. Reasonable weight, great aesthetics and without the costs of carbon. Any chance that's under consideration?


Wondering this too. I'd really be interested in a tubular version of this rim.

Great rim as a clincher though. Congrats to all involved! If/when I want another clincher set, I'll probably be getting these.

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:36 pm
by dwaharvey
@fdegrove... Trillo111 answered this for me; my thoughts mirror his. Seems like it should make for a stronger, more aerodynamic rim, and I can't remember the last time I had to true one of the wheels I built.

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:43 am
by fdegrove
Hi,

Well, everything is a compromise as you know.
In this case however I see no real benefit in adding weight to the periphery of the wheel, the aero benefit of putting the nipples inside being arguable at best.

That said, I feel it's best for the designers to speak up and defend their design choices.

Ciao, ;)

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:24 pm
by ergott
The biggest reason is demand. I thought that internally drilled rims would be a great idea too. I remember me and a few other builders had the distributor order a batch of XR270 rims internally drilled. They were such a hard sell. People passed and went with the standard rim almost every time. I understand that taking a tire/tube off every time you need to true wheels sounds like a non issue, but I think the thought of removing rim tape and putting on new tape can be annoying. Of course, you shouldn't have to true your wheels often if at all!

Any performance benefits are very small if at all. It is seen as less consumer friendly and when the option was there, it wasn't as popular. These are the main reasons not to have internally drilled rims. It's not like something that you can do as a group buy. We order rims in the many hundred to thousands level (combined).

That might not be the answer you were looking for, but it's the truth. I don't mind working with internal nipples at all and I do like the look.

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:38 pm
by Kraaf
Nice..
I'd prefer them all silver, too, but there you go. Like Fdegrove said, the aero benefit of internal nipples is arguable at best. Zipp found no benefit whatsoever, fwiw. Unlike spoke count (to a limit) and shape. And while making aero-predictions is a bit like astrology, having a flush tire-rim interface does appear to be a smart thing to do. It seems to be a key factor in gettting low-profile rims reasonably aerodynamic.

So the plan is to sell rims only?

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:36 pm
by ergott
I got my rims! Here's my latest update.

http://ergottwheels.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... -rims.html

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:02 pm
by dvincere
trillo1111 wrote:As far as the question about internal nipples - correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't having a smaller hole in the rim at the nipple decrease the likelihood of cracking around the nipple? Seems with everyone making lighter rims (and especially on a version 1.0),a smaller hole (ie. internal nipple) would be a good idea as it would better preserve the integrity of the rim and better resist a nipple pulling through the rim. Nipple washers could be a band-aid instead. There is also the claim that internal nipples are more aero - but I don't know how significant that is... As a light rider, I very rarely have to true my wheels - so not the end of the world having to pull the tire off when necessary; if we were talking tubulars - I agree, it would be a real pain. Open to hear other thoughts on the matter.



Actually, this is wrong. A smaller hole may leave more material but a smaller hole creates a greater stress concentration (raiser). Fatigue cracks always start as stress concentrations. In certain situations, outside of bicycle components, we actually drill a larger hole when a stress fracture forms to remove the fracture and reduce the likelihood of another one forming. Anyways, spokes pull through rims due to this so making a smaller hole increases the need for reinforcement around the holes. In this instance, decreasing the hole size in half roughly means we need to make the material surrounding it - to a fast mental estimation of dimensions - about 35% stronger.

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:35 pm
by Zen Cyclery
Thanks for the update on those Ergott. The more I hear about them, the more intrigued I become. How would you say quality compares to a C2 Belgium or XC279? In the same league? Nicer?

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:56 am
by Timebandit415
Where will these rims be made?

Re: Finally the rim I've been waiting to talk about.Pacenti

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:56 am
by Weenie