Numbers on Campagnolo 11 speed spacers

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excel11
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:40 pm

by excel11

I have a 2013 SR system. I am running a 12-27 cassette and I am getting slow down shifts. I have a 2.3 spacer. When I began inspecting my 2.2 spacers I noticed numbers on them. Is there a special order of these numbered spacers?
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em3
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by em3

All Campagnolo tech docs can be downloaded on their website. See pg 74-75:

http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/0 ... part_B.pdf

If u find ur spacers are in correct order, then check for appropriate cable tension, cable friction and most importantly, rear hanger alignment. EM3
______________

by Weenie


excel11
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by excel11

Thank you for the link. However, it does not answer my question. In the tech docs it states there are 4 "F" spacers (2.2mm). I have 8 different "F" spacers - I have an 11 speed Chorus cassette also. All spacers state 2.2 mm. 3 of the spacers have the number 1 stamped on them, 2 of them have a number 2 on them, and 3 of them have a 3 stamped on them. My question is does the order of these spacers matter? I assume they do not because they are all 2.2 mm spacers.
What happened to you after you fell? - Steve Porino
"I got back up and started chasing" - Geraint Thomas

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tommasini
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by tommasini

The spacers that look alike are all 2.2 mm. The 2.3 mm has several obvious differences. The numbers have never been explained to me - my pretty certain assumption is that those numbers indicate which injection mold die was used - a form of quality control.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Just make sure the 2.3mm is between the 2nd largest "cluster" of cogs and where the single cogs start. The 2.3mm spacer is also the one that seems to break the most frequently. When 11spd was first introduced this spacer was the same as the rest, but it was very difficult to adjust so that there wasn't any hint of "clicking" with the chain between the cogs. The slight increase in thickness seems to have fixed that, a running change early on. But it doesn't seem like that's your issue given that you have a 2013 cassette with the 2.3mm spacer. I find that slow shifting down the cogs is usually a result of cable friction and/or aggressive bends in the housing. Also, despite the fact that Campy Ergo shifters have essentially two "routes" for the derailleur cable coming out of the shifter, I now always use the less severe route, meaning both cables and housing get routed to the front of the bars. Even if their is a groove in the rear of the bar, I will just ignore that, fill it in with something, and run both brake and derailleur cables to the front. If you buy new ergo shifters, the derailleur cables come preinstalled with this routing in mind. You don't have to do it that way, but it's obvious it is a smoother run going that way.
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excel11
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by excel11

You probably are correct about to much cable friction because when I correct the slow down shift I get hesitation on the up shift. I never seem to find the exact sweet spot. However, I get very close many times. I will think that the problem is solved, but after an hour or so it comes back. If I hold the shift a little longer there never seems to be a problem, but holding every shift for an extra second seems excessive. Is it possible that the small hole in the shifter is causing friction? I read somewhere that one should bore this small hole with an old cable.
What happened to you after you fell? - Steve Porino
"I got back up and started chasing" - Geraint Thomas

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Never had to bore that hole out. It's a little tricky to get it through however. I go to great lengths to make sure the cable runs are as smooth and lubricated as possible. Do that and I suspect your issue will be solved. Also, make sure the dérailleur housing ends are cut square and that they are inserted all the way into the levers and seated properly. Have you ridden a lot in cruddy weather. Sometimes, especially the rear housing that goes directly into the dérailleur gets pretty gunned up inside and replacing that alone can help quite a lot. But if it's all fairly new that shouldn't be the issue.
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5 8 5
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by 5 8 5

tommasini wrote:The numbers have never been explained to me - my pretty certain assumption is that those numbers indicate which injection mold die was used - a form of quality control.

tommasini is correct. The numbers refer to the impression number of a multi-impression mould. Had a look at a couple of cassettes and the spacers were number 2s and 4s so it could be a 4 impression mould tool that produces them.

5 8 5
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by 5 8 5

excel11 wrote:Is it possible that the small hole in the shifter is causing friction? I read somewhere that one should bore this small hole with an old cable.

excel11, are you referring to the beige insert in the lever body?

excel11
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by excel11

Yes. This is the second cable that I have put into the shifter. I kinked the first cable because of the tight turn and the small hole in the shifter. This is the second cable and I have ridden with it for about a year. I will go a few rides without adjusting, but I know that it is not completely correct. The people I ride with never notice the problem so I must be close to correct.

I thought I might have a small bend in the hanger. So I bought another hanger but it did not correct the problem.
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graeme_f_k
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by graeme_f_k

excel11 wrote:Yes. This is the second cable that I have put into the shifter. I kinked the first cable because of the tight turn and the small hole in the shifter. This is the second cable and I have ridden with it for about a year. I will go a few rides without adjusting, but I know that it is not completely correct. The people I ride with never notice the problem so I must be close to correct.

I thought I might have a small bend in the hanger. So I bought another hanger but it did not correct the problem.


A couple of notes:

A new hanger guarantees nothing - in the case of the OE hangers, they are usually made of poor alloy (colloquially "cheese") and the manufacture process seldom actually produces one where the part of the hanger that mates to the frame is properly perpendicular to the thread in the hanger that the top pivot bolt tightens into. Even in the case of a "CNC" hanger where this ought to be the case, it's something of a leap of faith that the area on the frame that the hanger mates to will be exactly parallel in both axes to the cassette - so even if the hanger itself is right, never take it for granted that the frame is ... we've seen enough to know "it ain't necessarily so" as the song goes.

Fit the hanger, torque it down, fit the rear wheel, making sure the QR springs are the right way around, with the bike on the floor (so that the wheel is all the way into the dropouts), then check with an alignment tool and cold set as necessary - just make sure that the wheel you are using as your template is straight and that the bearings don't have excess rock in them. The rim may only move 0.5 mm, say, but if the offset tolerance is +/-6mm (as it is for Campag and for that matter Shimano & SRAM) then 0.5 mm is still clocking on for a 4% error - OK if your offset is in the lower part of that +/-6mm, not so hot if you are at the extreme edge of it.

We say it a squillion times a year but it does sometimes seem to have trouble getting through ... the reason Campagnolo (and everyone else) engraves or otherwise indicates a torque setting on the cassette lockring is because it matters - its 45-50nm for a reason! In Campagnolo's case, the supposed fragility in the spacers and the accurate spacing between the sprockets are both functions of how well compressed the spacers are - tightening the lockring to the required torque addresses both of these problems.

The tell-tale on cable friction is that the user can either set the downshift well but get a sluggish upshift, or the upshift is snappy but the downsift is laggard - doing the 1kg test on the cable will give you a quantifiable, definite measure of whether friction alone is the issue.

If friction is the issue, commonly found things include outer cable ends not opened up properly, wrong ferrules and / or with incorrect o-ring seals, poor quality inners if "pattern", small kinks of the inner, inside the outer from assembly, corrosion of the inner, degradation or wear of the liner inside the outer (often forgotten, especially at the handlebar end) and so on. In-line adjusters installed on a cable bend are also frequent culprits, especially these days with internal cabling and the fad for reducing weight of the frame by simply porting the frame for a cable end or ferrule, rather than building on or in a proper location for a threaded adjuster. Beware inline adjuster drift, too - turning the bars can occasionally cause the adjuster barrels to rotate, especially in un-sprung adjusters or those where the spring inside the adjuster is almost or totally "unloaded" so doing little or nothing to help the adjuster retain it's setting. Crossed cables and inner cable rub on part of the frame can also give friction-based issues.

Crossed or intertwined cables can also give tension issues - typically seen where indexing is set on the inside chainring but is "off" for the outer, or vice-versa.

Other, non-friction culprits for poor shift can be end-compression on the housing (plastic, not metal ferrules used? Outer cables cut accurately square when the outer is curved into place?), under-bracket gear tunnel flex (are the tunnels tight to the BB shell with no cables running across them or are the cables preloaded by the tunnels trying to spring away from the BB shell?), non-Campag inners (where the cable head has bulged the cable bushing enough to bring it into contact with the inside of the shifter body)? Gear outer not fully seated in the lever body (can develop if the levers are not tight enough on the 'bar and shift down the curve during riding)? Lastly, all gear systems work better if the outers are fully taped in under the handlebar tape and all the adjusters are as close to fully screwed "in" as possible so that they don't move so much in their threads as the gear cable tension changes.
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nlouthan
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by nlouthan

That's a lot of great info. Thank you

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Calnago
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by Calnago

graeme_f_k wrote:...
We say it a squillion times a year but it does sometimes seem to have trouble getting through ... the reason Campagnolo (and everyone else) engraves or otherwise indicates a torque setting on the cassette lockring is because it matters - its 45-50nm for a reason! In Campagnolo's case, the supposed fragility in the spacers and the accurate spacing between the sprockets are both functions of how well compressed the spacers are - tightening the lockring to the required torque addresses both of these problems.
...

All good info in your post Graeme, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the correct torque for the Campy 11sp lockring an even 40Nm? At least that what it says on any lock ring I've seen since 11spd came out. The last time I saw 50Nm was on 10sp stuff.
Last edited by Calnago on Tue May 12, 2015 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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excel11
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:40 pm

by excel11

Thank you for the information. It seems that I need to try the 1km test for friction in the cable. Everything on the the bike that can be Campagnolo is Campagnolo.
What happened to you after you fell? - Steve Porino
"I got back up and started chasing" - Geraint Thomas

excel11
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:40 pm

by excel11

I did the one kilogram friction test on the the cable. The derailleur snapped to original position quickly. I believe I could have put much more weight on the cable and it would have snapped right back.
What happened to you after you fell? - Steve Porino
"I got back up and started chasing" - Geraint Thomas

by Weenie


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