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Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs.

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:23 pm
by diegogarcia
Hi,

Decided to go down the hand-built route and ordering some kit now.

Have a pair of A23'a in the basket, and looking at spokes. Can anyone advise what length of Sapim CX Ray I need to build a set of A23 on Chris King R45 hubs 32/28.

Thanks.

Diego.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:02 pm
by Mackers
Anyone would need to know the # of crosses first.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:02 pm
by Weenie

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:12 am
by jsinclair
R45's are way too nice to lace to velocity rims. If its not too late I would pick something of similar quality to the king hubs, maybe Hed c2.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:12 am
by jsinclair
Edit: Double post.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:02 am
by diegogarcia
Ah ok, thanks. Noted.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:35 am
by maddog 2
Tune or DT for the hubs :wink:

CK are overrated IMO.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:54 pm
by lobular
CK overrated? Are you serious?

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:33 pm
by Tokyo Drifter
Chris King are nice until you have to service the bearings and you realise you have to pay $300 for a fancy grease gun.

Tune are unimpressive in every way but weight.

DT swiss have well designed internals but are unremarkable in function and weight.

This is your answer:

Image

l is the spoke length
rr is the radius of the rim
rf is the radius of the hub flange (measured to the centre of the spoke hole)
f is the offset of the flange from the centre of the wheel
x is the number of times a spoke crosses over another spoke
h is the total number of spokes in the wheel
dh is the diameter of the spoke hole in the hub

Otherwise, take it to your bike shop with your hub and rim and tell them what you want. Exchange services and spokes for currency.

But yeah, get other rims. Velocity rims are basically the shittest things ever. Before you do any of this you should purchase a set of mavic, DT swiss or Ambrosio rims.

You'll need vernier calipers and you shouldn't trust the online calculators.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:35 pm
by diegogarcia
Have binned the idea of A23 altogether due to multiple private message telling me to avoid. :thumbup:

Thanks all. We go again ! :D

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:27 pm
by maddog 2
lobular wrote:CK overrated? Are you serious?


yep

Quite a few of my mates have had the MTB hubs and had to muck about with them to keep everything working okay. If they were light and/or cheap then you'd forgive a bit of fettling, but they are neither. I just think DT are better, that's all.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:56 pm
by adriano
chris king is overrated.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:10 pm
by ergott
Wow.

Chris King R45s are great hubs. You don't need a $300 grease gun. The comments about Tune hubs are uncalled for as well. They are light and have great wheelbuilding dimensions. Aside from a problem with creaking a few years back, they are durable hubs. The biggest negative about DT hubs (and it's big in my book) is the poor flange spacing. They will make for laterally weaker wheels than all the other hubs mentioned.

As to the A23 rims, I don't know how many of the naysayers have actually build them in mass. They are excellent rims and the quality of Velocity rims in general is much better than ever. They moved production to the US and also redesigned the A23 rim. The spoke bed is tubeless ready now. You can still use Veloplugs if you wish to stick with tube and tire.

I'm curious as to what sort of actual experience the previous posts have building wheels.

Image

Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs.

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:31 pm
by Calnago
I second Ergott's comments regarding both the Chris King and DT hubs. Ergott, would it also be fair to say that the narrower flange spacing of the DT hubs does in fact allow for slightly less tension discrepancies between the drive and non drive sides? Even thenl, I am a fan of wider flange spacing whenever possible, especially since I'm a campy guy. Gotta support that dish somehow.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:16 pm
by ergott
The tension descrepancy is only a problem if the NDS spokes are going slack. Most modern rims can accept higher tension to help avoid this. If you are working with a rim that has a maximum tension of 100kgf or so, you need a hub with more even spacing. Even then, DT doesn't work best for Shimano 8/9/10 since they were designed with the spacing of Campagnolo. Campagnolo spacing requires the flange to be 1.6mm further towards the center of the hub due to the cassette spacing.

Re: Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:16 pm
by Weenie

Quick advice on spoke length please on A23 rims R45 hubs.

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:31 pm
by Calnago
Agreed. As long as the NDS spokes aren't going slack all should be fine. The thinner flatter spokes today must be tensioned much higher than say, a DT Comp spoke. If you don't mind me picking your brain a bit Ergott, I've been fortunate enough to obtain 3 sets of Ambrosio Nemesis rims. Using DT comp spokes, 3 cross both sides on campy record hubs, would a tension of about 100-110kgf (drive side) seem appropriate to you? I've built one set and this is about what I feel is where I can end up with this set up. I know that maybe a thinner spoke on the non drive side might enable higher tension there but I like all the spokes in this traditional build to be the same. Love the look of these wheels.