Vector Vaporware

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
kevinkalis
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:29 pm

by kevinkalis

http://garmin.blogs.com/my_weblog/2012/04/an-update-on-the-vector-pedal-based-power-system.html

I get that they're trying to deliver a quality product but IMO, if it wasn't ready, they shouldn't have given it a launch date to begin with
K2

Do you suffer more when you train, or cannot train?

User avatar
CharlesM
Posts: 5771
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Phoenix Arizona

by CharlesM

I get that people love to use the term vaporware and complain about development...

What do you think the specific issues for them are and the fixes?

kevinkalis
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:29 pm

by kevinkalis

I'm assuming that was rhetorical, I'll answer it anyway.

I would've preferred them not publicising a release date until they were certain they could actually keep to it.
K2

Do you suffer more when you train, or cannot train?

stevei
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:45 am

by stevei

CharlesM wrote:What do you think the specific issues for them are and the fixes?

Constantly slipping timescales tend to arise from inexperienced project managers who don't understand that when an engineer tells you a product is 95% complete, it is in fact 50% complete (in terms of elapsed time) if you're lucky. What they need is people in charge with experience of managing similar projects in the past, who understand how long it typically takes in practice to deliver a product to market from its current state. Many people make the mistake of assuming that everything that remains to be done is known about, so they estimate how long it will take to sort out all known problems and think it will then be finished. Where experience comes into it is in estimating how much you still have left to do that is as yet not known about, and how long all those things will take to fix.

rruff
Shop Owner
Posts: 2194
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:12 am
Location: Alto, NM

by rruff

Good points stevei, but it could just be a marketing ploy... set a date they know they can't meet to keep customers waiting and watching.

djwalker
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:35 pm

by djwalker

The old rule of thumb was that the first 90% of the work takes 10% of the time and the last 10% takes 90% of the time. You can argue about the percentages but the basic idea is true.

aerogurl
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:06 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

by aerogurl

I wonder if the market for used SRMs will recover now? It has been getting stupid cheap to buy 2nd hand sets.

$5-700 for wired models w/electronics
$1200-2000 for wireless depending on the model and inclusion/exclusion of electronics.

Send them for service every other year and they will last forever.

I agree that a pedal based system would be great but how patient does one need to be?

kevinkalis
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:29 pm

by kevinkalis

Right now, the Brim Bros Zone PM is looking a lot more attractive. I'm still just slightly skeptical about reliability and after sales support.
K2

Do you suffer more when you train, or cannot train?

stevei
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:45 am

by stevei

kevinkalis wrote:Right now, the Brim Bros Zone PM is looking a lot more attractive. I'm still just slightly skeptical about reliability and after sales support.

What makes you think it is any closer to market than the Garmin pedals? I hope it is, because if it works well it will be my preferred option, but I'm not sure we have any reason to believe it is.

kevinkalis
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:29 pm

by kevinkalis

stevei wrote:What makes you think it is any closer to market than the Garmin pedals? I hope it is, because if it works well it will be my preferred option, but I'm not sure we have any reason to believe it is.


I'm under no illusions that the Zone is still a long way off, possibly even longer than the Vector. Whereas it "was" a simple choice before ie. first to market, reliable backing. It's no longer a simple choice.

If the Zone is just a few $$ cheaper than the Vector I might be swayed, if it's significantly cheaper, I'll be one of those risk-taking early adopters of unproven technology from a small startup.
K2

Do you suffer more when you train, or cannot train?

uraqt
Posts: 815
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am

by uraqt

I agree with kevinkalis about taking the risk with BRIM.... I am even thinking about buying the 1st version and modifying it to work with look cleats :)


Don't agree with you about not publicising a release date, I think a release time frame is ok, and then if they keep updating us I am ok with that...

I think this is a screwed if do and screwed if you don't type thing in any business. Even Apple the king of keep info under wraps has issues with this and they get to do development in secret. Development in secret is not really an option in the bike world

TimW
Posts: 476
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 1:52 pm
Location: England, UK

by TimW

it's not looking good. Garmin Vector delayed, again. The Look/Polar system needing to be recalled for updates.

Even when the Vector is released, I wouldn't get it until it was proven. I've been burnt before. Garmin in particular have a bad reputation for products requiring updates, even the delays don't mean that won't happen.

No Pro teams have been using the product for a season or more. It will take some time for the product to be proven in reliability and accuracy against mature solutions such as SRM and Powertap. An unreliable meter is next to useless.

User avatar
CharlesM
Posts: 5771
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Phoenix Arizona

by CharlesM

Ah I get it...


Vapor meaning the hot air generated by internet complaining about a job we cant do and don't understand but are sure isn't being handled properly... :lol:

User avatar
strobbekoen
Posts: 4446
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 6:24 pm
Location: BELGIUM

by strobbekoen

Well, I never made a power meter but I am an engineer and have experience with delivering products.
I agree Vaporware is a bit over the top :D

What happens in smaller companies like SRM is, they work on a smaller scale and more controlled environment, the collaboration is more tight and the key people are still the same as when they started. Sure, they have market pressures, but their business model is different from larger corporations. They can't really afford taking risks bringing a new product early to the market. They only make one type of product. Their main asset is quality, not market share. They are also not interested in becoming huge.

What happens in larger companies is that they will try to push out products to the market quicker and also start marketing it way before it's ready for production. It's just a way to keep people talking about their stuff..
The early versions of released products usually have some problems, but they can handle it. The quantity of sales and the diversity of products they sell generates a big enough buffer to cover for that. Plus, it would be rare to have a guy there in charge who has the technical knowledge to really gauge the way engineers work. Totally different model.

stevei
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:45 am

by stevei

CharlesM wrote:Vapor meaning the hot air generated by internet complaining about a job we cant do and don't understand but are sure isn't being handled properly... :lol:

Actually I was speaking from personal experience of managing projects and having accumulated exactly the experience I was talking about. My projects were delivered on time, but I've seen plenty that weren't, for the exact reasons I described.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post