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Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:55 pm
by aaric
Permon wrote:Hm, I thought that NEW Sram RED 2012/2013 was supposed to be 200g under SR! Are we really talking about the NEW stuff 2012/2013 or 2011/2012 model year before overhaul?
Thanx for clearing it to me.


Pretty sure that these SRAM weights aren't the BB30 cranksets. From what I recall, the bb30 cranks are supposed to be significantly (50g+) lighter, but aren't really available yet (or maybe they just are becoming available?). Also, they are probably not comparing to the high end SR crank that is listed. So, not really apples to apples in this, or SRAM's marketing: I'd expect a comparison of the lightest offering, or the common offering to be consistent.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:55 pm
by Weenie

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:25 pm
by giro di lento
Madcow, many thanks for adding Ultegra 6700 - much appreciated.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am
by Permon
aaric wrote:
Permon wrote:Hm, I thought that NEW Sram RED 2012/2013 was supposed to be 200g under SR! Are we really talking about the NEW stuff 2012/2013 or 2011/2012 model year before overhaul?
Thanx for clearing it to me.


Pretty sure that these SRAM weights aren't the BB30 cranksets. From what I recall, the bb30 cranks are supposed to be significantly (50g+) lighter, but aren't really available yet (or maybe they just are becoming available?). Also, they are probably not comparing to the high end SR crank that is listed. So, not really apples to apples in this, or SRAM's marketing: I'd expect a comparison of the lightest offering, or the common offering to be consistent.


Sorry, but BB30 to BSA is not apples to apples! :idea: I think that comparing BSA to BSA version is correct. SR has titanium spindle, SRAM does not....so what? Is Campagnolo supposed to quit manufacturing it to make You happy? Maybe next time you will ask Campagnolo to stop using carbon fiber? :-)

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:43 pm
by aaric
Permon wrote:Sorry, but BB30 to BSA is not apples to apples! :idea: I think that comparing BSA to BSA version is correct. SR has titanium spindle, SRAM does not....so what? Is Campagnolo supposed to quit manufacturing it to make You happy? Maybe next time you will ask Campagnolo to stop using carbon fiber? :-)


Fair enough, depends on what you are trying to compare. Lightest configuration of the groupset, lightest groupset in a bb30 frame or BSA, or lightest at a price point.

To me, these numbers appear intended to be a lightest to lightest comparison. A lightest BSA comparison is just fine. As would a lightest BB30 configuration. But that's the problem with comparisons, and why the manufacturers can get away with crazy numbers: They pick the niche comparison that they look best in, grab their lightest parts, and then compare them to another manufacturers off the shelf parts.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:59 pm
by leibov69
great contribution

thanks :thumbup:

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:22 pm
by durkonion
Permon wrote:
aaric wrote:
Permon wrote:Hm, I thought that NEW Sram RED 2012/2013 was supposed to be 200g under SR! Are we really talking about the NEW stuff 2012/2013 or 2011/2012 model year before overhaul?
Thanx for clearing it to me.


Pretty sure that these SRAM weights aren't the BB30 cranksets. From what I recall, the bb30 cranks are supposed to be significantly (50g+) lighter, but aren't really available yet (or maybe they just are becoming available?). Also, they are probably not comparing to the high end SR crank that is listed. So, not really apples to apples in this, or SRAM's marketing: I'd expect a comparison of the lightest offering, or the common offering to be consistent.


Sorry, but BB30 to BSA is not apples to apples! :idea: I think that comparing BSA to BSA version is correct. SR has titanium spindle, SRAM does not....so what? Is Campagnolo supposed to quit manufacturing it to make You happy? Maybe next time you will ask Campagnolo to stop using carbon fiber? :-)

Well what if you have a BB30 frame? SRAM loses 104g according to Zigmeister. I'm not sure how the Campy BB compares to BB30 bearings + adapters to fit the cranks, but I'm guessing it gains some weight.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:01 am
by notsoswift
notsoswift wrote:I happen to have a complete 2012 Chorus group here, just about to go on to my new bike
I will weigh it on the Weekend, though my scales don't do decimals it should give you a good place to start

Not really relevant because the list has been edited but my weights are in Blue to compare:


2012 Individual weights.

Shifters.
Campag Chorus: 340.6340

Rear Derailleurs
Campag Chorus: 186.6184

Front Derailleur
Campag Chorus: 73.176

Brake set:
Campag Chorus: 309.5316, but that includes the rubber packing stops and adjusters

Cassette, (11-23 including lockring)
Campag Chorus: 230.211-25 inc lock ring 244

Chain
Campag Chorus: 251.8258 including packaging (and instructions) as I didn't want to open the bag!

Crank w/bb and all mounting hardware
Campag Chorus: 714Crank (175mm 53/39) and bolts 696, record BB 44

Cables and electronics. (this includes cables, housing, wires, batteries, mounts and anything needed to make the brake and shifters works.)
Campag Chorus: 246.2didn't do because didn't want to unpack and I may use Alligator iLink

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:12 am
by Juanmoretime
Not all scales are calibrated a like and also due to different material densities component weight can vary from in the same brand and model. IE The original Selle Italia SLR was advertised at 135 grams and I have seen them weight anywhere from 128 grams to 165 grams untuned.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:05 pm
by 5 8 5
durkonion wrote:Well what if you have a BB30 frame? SRAM loses 104g according to Zigmeister. I'm not sure how the Campy BB compares to BB30 bearings + adapters to fit the cranks, but I'm guessing it gains some weight.

It loses a bit of weight. The BB30 convertor cups are lighter than the BSA cups. Sorry, don't know the exact weight difference. The BB86 are approx 16g lighter.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:12 pm
by Rush
Great effort and many thanks.

However, you may want to double check the SRAM Force numbers.
The number given for the total weight (2435.6 grams) doesn't equal the sum of the listed components (which is 2458.6 grams).

All the other mechanical groupsets add up correctly to your listed total.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:52 pm
by michel2
YOU BEAUTY !
thanks madcow, lovin it, its nice to see you not only weighted to top groupsets !

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:34 pm
by jordo99
madcow wrote:Complete group weights from lightest to heaviest:
8. Sram Force, 2435.60 grams

Now being that this is WW most of the variables will be replaced with others, so lets look at just the key pieces. (removing cranks, bb, chain, brakes and cassette.) Replacing cables with an averaged light setup such as Alligator. (100 grams for brake and 60 grams for shift.)

6. Sram Force, 771.5 grams


Just adding up components from SRAM's site shows the complete force group at 1968g (albeit, without cables/housing/etc). That's not even close!? Did I miss something here or did they really overshoot their weight by over 200g?

For the core only it's 729 after adding 160g for cables but that's still 40g off.

Maybe it's just a surprise to me because I'm new to counting grams but that seems more inaccurate than I was expecting. I also used the Force example because that's what I'm building up my new bike with.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:50 pm
by jmilliron
This should be a sticky. Drop the repairing tubulars thread if needed.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:15 am
by Barrie
Many thanks Madcow
most helpful

Barrie

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:34 pm
by Aakoo
jordo99 wrote:
madcow wrote:Complete group weights from lightest to heaviest:
8. Sram Force, 2435.60 grams

Now being that this is WW most of the variables will be replaced with others, so lets look at just the key pieces. (removing cranks, bb, chain, brakes and cassette.) Replacing cables with an averaged light setup such as Alligator. (100 grams for brake and 60 grams for shift.)

6. Sram Force, 771.5 grams


Just adding up components from SRAM's site shows the complete force group at 1968g (albeit, without cables/housing/etc). That's not even close!? Did I miss something here or did they really overshoot their weight by over 200g?

For the core only it's 729 after adding 160g for cables but that's still 40g off.

Maybe it's just a surprise to me because I'm new to counting grams but that seems more inaccurate than I was expecting. I also used the Force example because that's what I'm building up my new bike with.


I think that the weights listed for SRAM Force on this thread are a bit off as well, for the shifters at least. I Just installed 2012 Force on my bike, and weighed the parts:
- Shifters 351g with shifter cables, I suppose set of uncut shifter cables are at least around 30g, so the shifters without cables should be around 320g or less?
- Brakes 288g
- GXP compact crankset 175mm 676g (I suppose the standard is 30g heavier?)
- GXP BB 109g
- RD 173g

The FD was Sram Red 2012 (85g with chain catcher) and with Ultegra cassette (11-23 207g) and DA chain (114 links 262g) the groupset was around 2100g without cables with the chain cut to correct lenght. But still, I don't see how you can get the GXP groupset under 2100g with SRAM cassette and chain as claimed.

Re: 2012 Complete group weights

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:34 pm
by Weenie