BB30 Creaking - My success story.

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TheDarkInstall
Posts: 725
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:44 am

by TheDarkInstall

sungod wrote:but loctite bearing retention compound of the type used for bb30 is not for "gluing in" the bearings, the purpose of it is to fill in the tiny gaps between bearing and shell that are likely to cause creaking, especially if they get dirty, so in cases where poor tolerance is the cause it'll be effective, in cases where the shell is distorting a heavy grease might work better


Haha, yes I am fully aware of that.

Nobody has actually said which Loctite they are using though (have they?), so it may very well be that the Loctite being used acts as a very strong bond. I know when I took the BB out of my first Cannondale SuperSix Evo which came as a complete build, it took about an hour of hammering to get it out. This was Loctited in (not sure which Loctite they used).

cobrakai
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:19 pm

by cobrakai

The most commonly recommended loctite formula is 609, which is specifically designed for press fit bearings that will need to be disassembled. You will certainly not have to go hammering at it for hours to get it apart. I have also seen loctite 641 recommended, which is very similar.

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superdx
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm

by superdx

The installation guides say Loctite 609. And yeah it's not really a glue. So you won't be hammering it out when it dries etc

goodboyr
Posts: 1487
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Location: Canada

by goodboyr

The type of loctite recommended is clearly stated in manufacturers assembly manuals. I would think that if cannondale recommends this stuff they would revise their manual......

As well, loctite bearing retainer compounds are widely used in industry for this very purpose and deal successfully with much more severe conditions than bicycle bb's.

Grease can be used and is recommended usually as ok if the tolerances are good. But in many cases the tolerance stack up requires a gap filler compound.

So......"face palm" stands......

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Rick
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm

by Rick

You should probably be warned that Loctite is a pretty strong adhesive, so you do have to "hammer out" the bearings if you want to take them out.
In my case, they come out pretty easily but require a pretty sharp "rap" with a steel hammer on a steel BB30 removal tool.
I couldn't hammer them out when using a heavy rubber mallet, but the sharp rap of a steel hammer did it. I guess the shock wave breaks the bond.

lennyk
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:57 am

by lennyk

If bb has aluminum bearing casing,
Use a blowdryer to heat up for a little, doesnt have to be extremely hot.
The aluminum will expand a lot more than the steel bearing
So the bond will be weakened plus the looser fit.

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Rick
Posts: 2034
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm

by Rick

Good idea!

superdx
Posts: 524
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm

by superdx

I got a success story too, but had nothing to do with BB30 or Loctite, though I did put 609 on and reinstalled. The cause was cheap FSA chainrings that come OEM Cannondale SISL cranksets. I checked the tightness on the bolts and torqued them properly and immediately the noise changed, went from clicking to squeaking.

Took a set of spare Praxis rings I had and put them on and noise went away immediately. Rode 60km in pure mechanical silence bliss.

TLDR: OEM FSA parts are crap. Get rid of them. 6 months of enjoyment on my CAAD10 wrecked by this noise.

Image

CerveloMad
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:37 am

by CerveloMad

goodboyr wrote:Image

Goodboyr, although this is in response to your post almost 12 months ago now and I am only a newbie to the forum, it does annoy me to see the arrogant type of facepalm you responded to a previous post from "TheDarkInstall". I appreciate you don’t agree with his view, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion without having to have this kind of response posted like yours. All he was doing was trying to help others by providing information from his own experience. It may, or may not be right, but please, don’t act like you are the righteous one and look down on others as if they are idiots. All it does is incite aggression on the forum. If in your opinion, you don’t agree, just say why. Forums are essentially for sharing ideas and solutions to problems. Politeness and respect doesn't cost anything.

goodboyr
Posts: 1487
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Location: Canada

by goodboyr

You don't like Star Trek??
Seriously, it was not intended as anything beyond me expressing frustration at the plethora of home grown remedies instead of just using the manufacturers instructions before trying them.
If I offended I apologize. I did not intend to offend.

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1925
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

WWRWD?

CerveloMad
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:37 am

by CerveloMad

goodboyr wrote:You don't like Star Trek??
Seriously, it was not intended as anything beyond me expressing frustration at the plethora of home grown remedies instead of just using the manufacturers instructions before trying them.
If I offended I apologize. I did not intend to offend.

That's more like it goodboyr. Diplomatic relations resumed and do appreciate your courteous reply. Now let's all get on with trying to cure that elusive creak! :beerchug:

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cyclespeed
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

I remember a few years ago Specialized issued a little pot of 'glue' for my SL4 Sworks Tarmac.

The BB30 bearings were held in plastic cups that were supposed to be press fit into the frame, but often came loose. Hence the glue to keep them in, but not so strong as to never get them out again.

This always struck me as a complete bodge. Highly unprofessional. Just do it right first time.

Now the SL5 has no cups, the bearings just pressfit into the frame which is better, but the whole system is sensitive to creaks and only frequent maintenance keeps them away.

fixy12
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:29 am

by fixy12

Hi

I have a CAADX 105 which had a creaking BB30 and was starting to drive me mad.

I did some research and was about to purchase an adaptor sleeve and change cranks when and I came across this post as well as another forum where a person stated that he believed the creak come from the intersection of the BB30 crankshaft axle and the inner surface of the BB bearings.

By blending the two forum posts together and having a beleif that I had nothing to loose, I pulled the crank out, cleaned everything, slid the crank 3/4 of the way back into the BB, placed a small amount of copper anti sieze on the two surfaces of the crank shaft axle that would intersect with the bearings, slid it in place and bolted everything back together.

That was 4 months ago and I have not had a creak since. I ride everyday, cover approx 140kms each week and weigh 100KGS so I there is every reason for the creak to reappear

In some ways it make sense that this works as the crank shaft axle is the element that can flex and when it flexes the surface of the bearing and the axle shaft must bind creating the creak.

The other thing I did not like about using the loctite to glue new bearing in place was that it was going to be a difficult problem to fix if it failed to work. How was I going to get the bearings out?

I also think that the person on page 1 of this post who went mad about using anti sieze could be hinting that by using antisieze between he outer BB bearing surface and the machined interface of the BB that this could enable the bearing to slowly wear the aluminium surface away and make the BB oversized / useless for future bearing insertion. If my solution creates the same problem all I have to do is replace the crank shaft axle which is easy and inexpencive to do so.

I hope this provides another option for people when they encounter this problem

Good luck!

stormur
Posts: 1173
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:50 pm
Location: FIN

by stormur

I'd like to see what people do instead of hear what they say... All "manuals", "solutions", "wunder ideas"....
Just find on YT Cannondale Team mechanics assembling BB bearings and you'll have the right answer.

Does it work ? Yep. Not creaking ? No. Never. Is it permanent ? Nope ( against all "opinions" and "manuals" ).

609 is NOT "gap filler". It's retainer. Read please in dictionary what this word means ;) Is it apropriate ? No. To weak. In majority of cases.


The right answer for installing steel bearings in very out of specs ( read most of them ) Cannondale BB aluminium shell of is Loctite 648 . RETAINER. It's stronger ( but berings are still easy to knock off of the shell ) than 609, fills bigger gaps, and much more resistant to any material contamination.

IF ( just if ) shell is new, and surprisingly within specs; 609 may be sufficient, but happens ( often) that is not. Then 648.


Naturally you're allowed to not agree ( and continue searching of "silence" :mrgreen: ) .

Proper greasing crank shaft-spindle interface is so obvious that not even worth to discuss.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)

by Weenie


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