Shimano alfine 11 in a race frame

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
denbuffel
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:10 pm

by denbuffel

I'm thinking of rebuilding my old trek 5500 frame with a shimano alfine 11speed hub, and with a belt.

The problem is that the hub is 135mm and a race frame is 130mm

Is there a way to solve this problem?

crohnsy
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Location: Canada

by crohnsy

:noidea: The Trek 5500 frame doesn't have a way to install a belt drive does it?? Spacing might be the least of your problems..

As for making it fit... Thinner axle hardware, stretch your frame, sand your dropouts thinner.... Possible options with some drawbacks....

:noidea: :beerchug: :smartass: :shock:

aldocg
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:05 am

by aldocg

Get one of those Trek belt-drive frames?

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

You can adjust the Alfine11 hub to fit into a 130mm frame, it's only a matter of removing a few spacers/nuts on the axle.
There are non-belt versions available, but having a belt limits you to a frame which allows for a belt installation. The frame in your description does not, unfortunately.
The gear range of the Alfine11 is pretty amazing and broad. Set up well, you could potentially build a semi-light, low-maintenance race rig. The weight of the setup is on par with a slightly-above-middle-range 2x10 drivetrain, including shifters.

Most Alfine11 systems come standard with the flat-bar type shifting setups. The company "Versa" produces a drop-bar shifter/brake lever combo that look something like Shimano 105 circa 2009, and I've heard varying reports on the quality.
J-Tek produces the lightest weight shifter for the Alfine systems, and it is a bar end set up, so potentially if you don't mind shifting from the end of your handlebar you will be golden...


Speaking of which: a dream set up for me would be using an Alfine11 + JTek in a TT set up. No derailleurs = more aero, no?
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Epic-o
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Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:18 pm

by Epic-o

prendrefeu wrote:J-Tek produces the lightest weight shifter for the Alfine systems, and it is a bar end set up, so potentially if you don't mind shifting from the end of your handlebar you will be golden...


http://retroshift.com/

mjduct
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by mjduct

prendrefeu wrote:Speaking of which: a dream set up for me would be using an Alfine11 + JTek in a TT set up. No derailleurs = more aero, no?


that would be pretty sweet, I love my Alfine 8 on my Niner frame...

I think I'm going to do something similar to what your talking about here with my old 8 while upgrading my mountain bike to the new 11-speed Di2 I've had some problems with it holding ana adjustment on really rough stuff and I think that the digital set and forget might do the trick...

plus I would really like the extra range!

quattrings
Posts: 482
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:25 pm

by quattrings

prendrefeu wrote:Speaking of which: a dream set up for me would be using an Alfine11 + JTek in a TT set up. No derailleurs = more aero, no?



I'm unfamiliar with alfine, but the usual planetary reduction hubs (nexus, sturmey archer, sachs) are less efficient, some by more than 10% as a "conventional" derailler setup.
If It weren't less efficient I think we'd see more pro's riding it, not only in TT's (unless the uci made them illegal :lol: )

I think the OP hasn't really thought this one through

crohnsy
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:43 pm
Location: Canada

by crohnsy

prendrefeu wrote:You can adjust the Alfine11 hub to fit into a 130mm frame, it's only a matter of removing a few spacers/nuts on the axle.
There are non-belt versions available, but having a belt limits you to a frame which allows for a belt installation. The frame in your description does not, unfortunately.
The gear range of the Alfine11 is pretty amazing and broad. Set up well, you could potentially build a semi-light, low-maintenance race rig. The weight of the setup is on par with a slightly-above-middle-range 2x10 drivetrain, including shifters.

Most Alfine11 systems come standard with the flat-bar type shifting setups. The company "Versa" produces a drop-bar shifter/brake lever combo that look something like Shimano 105 circa 2009, and I've heard varying reports on the quality.
J-Tek produces the lightest weight shifter for the Alfine systems, and it is a bar end set up, so potentially if you don't mind shifting from the end of your handlebar you will be golden...


Speaking of which: a dream set up for me would be using an Alfine11 + JTek in a TT set up. No derailleurs = more aero, no?



Could always go Alfine Di2, then shifters would not be an issue!

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

quattrings wrote:If It weren't less efficient I think we'd see more pro's riding it, not only in TT's (unless the uci made them illegal :lol: )


Simple: tire changes. Changing a rear tire/wheel in the case of puncture with an internal hub set up isn't the quickest - remember the cable runs into the hub. Where a person wants to minimize absolute time for repair during a race, external drivetrains are the way to go for now.
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denbuffel
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:10 pm

by denbuffel

Mmh

Didn't think of that issue either ...
I'm relativly a nooby considered belt driving ...

I considered using this old frame I had laying around to make a cheap durable winter bike.

What is the cheapest race geometry frame available for a belt?

pocketbeagle
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:05 pm

by pocketbeagle

@denbuffel: I've got two bikes with 8 speed Alfine hubs and a mtb with an 11 speed Alfine hub. The actual spacing between locknuts is 132.5mm so you could probably stretch a 130mm spacing dropout a bit to fit without changing anything - at least that's what I did on my IF steel cross/commuter bike no problems. I had ever thought of running a belt drive but the hub is so silent even without much lube on the chain that I now think that belts really don't offer much advantage over chains.

@prendrefeu: I'm running the jtek shifter on one of the 8 speeds and it is very good. I'm not sure if they have an 11 speed shifter yet though. I had exactly the same thoughts as you with regard to aero and designed a bike around that (http://flic.kr/p/5XSwjr). The hub is very smooth and silent but very heavy. I guess it should not mean as much on flat tts but you could be carrying a lot more when climbing. Gear ratios are also a little wide for racing I think (but then again I don't race). Now if somebody could make a carbon fiber body, ceramic gear internals that would really be something! A quick release would also be nice... :-)

maxxevv
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

Ok, if you guys need / want a mechanical integrated dropbar shifter for your Alfine-8 and Alfine-11, these guys have actually a working production set(s) for both.

http://www.dynamicbicycles.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Saw them at Taipei Bike Show, give them a shout as their website doesn't show the items. But they do have it.

Its based on the MicroShift integrated shifters with their own modified/developed internals that are compatible with the Alfine-8 and 11 hubs. :beerchug:

Edit:

Apparently, they do show the Alfine-8. But they have the Alfine-11 as well. However, they are selling it as a complete bike, perhaps can enquire if they would sell it as a kit instead:

Image

Look under the road/cross bike section.

RollingGoat
Shop Wrench
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by RollingGoat

Epic-o wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:J-Tek produces the lightest weight shifter for the Alfine systems, and it is a bar end set up, so potentially if you don't mind shifting from the end of your handlebar you will be golden...


http://retroshift.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I was gonna do this setup for my commuter, turns out the jtek shifter doesn't work with retroshift. Ended up going with retroshift and derailleurs.
I'm so rubbish at this.

jahknob
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:27 pm
Location: London, UK

by jahknob

I've been running a road bike with Alfine 8 and the Dynamic-sourced "Versa" STI-style 8spd shifters for a little over a year. It works great as an everyday bicycle (along with disc brakes and a belt drive), but the extra friction from the hub internals (and the belt) and the large-ish intervals between the gears makes it not ideal for a road race bike, where even small differences in friction/gearing are keenly felt.

Then there is also the puncture problems (no quick means of fixing/replacing the rear wheel) and the fact that, with such a heavy rear hub (and narrow rims and tyres - race bike frame, right?) you are almost certain to break spokes/get pinch flats... Or at least that has been my experience (I usually get only one or two punctures a year on all my bikes and never break spokes, but have had two of each on just this one bike in the past year).

I should soon be upgrading to a new, purpose-built frame and an 11spd set-up, but after consultation with the framebuilder, we are going to go for a 26" wheel to increase the strength and allow for fatter tyres. It will still have drop bars and STI-style levers (and disc brakes and belt drive), and I'd like to think that if I was in a reasonable state of fitness I would be able to hold my own on a winter's run with the local chain gang...

j.

maxxevv
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:51 am

by maxxevv

jahknob wrote:I've been running a road bike with Alfine 8 and the Dynamic-sourced "Versa" STI-style 8spd shifters for a little over a year. It works great as an everyday bicycle (along with disc brakes and a belt drive), but the extra friction from the hub internals (and the belt) and the large-ish intervals between the gears makes it not ideal for a road race bike, where even small differences in friction/gearing are keenly felt.

Then there is also the puncture problems (no quick means of fixing/replacing the rear wheel) and the fact that, with such a heavy rear hub (and narrow rims and tyres - race bike frame, right?) you are almost certain to break spokes/get pinch flats... Or at least that has been my experience (I usually get only one or two punctures a year on all my bikes and never break spokes, but have had two of each on just this one bike in the past year).

I should soon be upgrading to a new, purpose-built frame and an 11spd set-up, but after consultation with the framebuilder, we are going to go for a 26" wheel to increase the strength and allow for fatter tyres. It will still have drop bars and STI-style levers (and disc brakes and belt drive), and I'd like to think that if I was in a reasonable state of fitness I would be able to hold my own on a winter's run with the local chain gang...

j.


Would suggest you check your spoke tensions for starters if you get broken spokes that many times. Unless of course its a bad batch of spokes like was the case with Reynolds Stratus DV and Sapim Lasers some years back. I had those broke on me on two different wheelsets. One clincher, the other Tubular. Both of the same Reynolds batch. Turns out it was a bad batch. Changed the spokes and all has been wonderful for the ~4 years since.

Next would be to check your rim bed. Pinch flats seldom got to do with rim width nor wheel strength. ITs almost 100% of the time due to under-inflation or the rim tape on the rim bed is not in good condition/ improperly laid or your tyres have some small flint/wire stuck on it somewhere.

Alternatively, since its a commuter, you might want to consider 28c tyres ? :beerchug:

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