Cannondale SuperSix Evo4
Moderator: robbosmans
Its not a similiar paint.
It was not with aerobottles. But it was with 2 piece handlebar.
Point was, those bike have different characteristics and manufacturers ideas on bikes. Choose yourself which is best for you, supersix , tarmac or something else
It was not with aerobottles. But it was with 2 piece handlebar.
Point was, those bike have different characteristics and manufacturers ideas on bikes. Choose yourself which is best for you, supersix , tarmac or something else
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I think your weights are still off for the SL8. I’m wondering where you got 740g for a 56 Dune White. I’m seeing 807g for a 52, 803g for a 52, and 828g for a 54. So I don’t see how a 56 could weigh that light. The 56 is probably 100g heavier than what you’re quoting. So if we’re going to quote the name of the website, at least give out true information. Or are we not allowed to fact check here?trex wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:50 amI fully understand you.LanceLegstrong wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:03 amI mean, at least be fair with the comparison. I had a RTP S-Works SL8 and now ride a normal non Hi-Mod SuperSix and the difference isn’t even 300g. And it’s not even the Hi-Mod or L71 frame. What are you comparing the white SSE to a bare SL8? People have posted like for like and the difference is like 50g for the frame at most and 30-40g for the fork. My Hylix seatpost is 130g so even with a Darimo you’re looking at 150g difference of you compare similar paint jobs. Nobody is saying the SSE will be lighter. That’s the whole thing for the SL8. But acting like it’s way heavier, and let’s be real even 300g is nothing for a full bike, is not telling the whole truth.trex wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 2:56 pmI just had latest LAB71 EF team replica (ERP) '56 size in my hands: 844g frame with hanger, 454g fork
This, with seatpost + all the small bits, is over 300g more than the s-works sl8 at $500E/$ MSRP more! Preposterous.
Even though I got a really, really good offer - I resigned. My friend at Cannondale LBS says no one wants these ones because of the price to weight ratio and the recurring seatpost problems .
And I’d still take that weight penalty than deal with the speed sniffer look.
Why am I comparing a white frame? Because, believe it or not, it is the only one I was able to order in my size from actual stock.
There was previously a team LAB71 frame available in the Roubaix/RBX paint job, but there are single sizes left. Plus it is vastly painted in a neon pink colour, which will fade immediately.
There is also a frame in WOW (silver/neon green) paintjob colour. My size is not available either.
Nevertheless - let's do it the right way! Apples to apples:
Cannondale Supersix EDR LAB71 56 frame: 844g, Uncut fork 454g
Specialized SL8 S-Works Dune White 56 frame: 740g, Uncut fork 365g
We already have a nearly 200g difference on the white to white framesets.
Add a lighter expander (with the possibility of changing to an even lighter, 3rd party one / not possible on Delta steertube), lighter Di2 mounting solution, lighter axles and Specialized is ballpark 230-250g lighter.
I'm writing this because from what I remember, the title of this forum is ‘weightweenies’ not ‘headtubenoseaestheticweenies’
Perhaps this speaks a little of my anger for the time lost to select and purchase a new frame
I'm a big fan of Cannondale. I've had a dozen of them since my first Volvo F700 (24 years ago?).
But enough is enough.
I understand that Specialized is a bigger company. With its own wind tunnel. With a bigger budget and team. Nevertheless, that didn't stop Cannondale from demanding 500E/$ more for a much inferior frame.
And the fork weight you quoted was from a size 52. My 58 RTP fork was 378g. So a white 56 would likely be closer to 400g, maybe 380g at best.
Cannondale SuperSix Evo gen 4
Specialized Crux
Specialized Epic 8
Specialized Crux
Specialized Epic 8
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Well, if you want to be accurate and use the correct weights the difference is just a “little bit.” Not to mention that 2W aero is 2W. 200g of weight is what, a quarter W at best? And if you’re going to quote percentage differences, it would make more sense to use the full bike weight unless you’ve figured out how to ride a frameset with no wheels or cockpit. The difference in weight comes down to like 3%.trex wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:01 amJust being accurate: aero difference is 207W on SSE4 to 209W on SL8. Which is less than 1%.GrassQ wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:30 amin generally, based on numbers (mainly Tour magazin)
Supersix little bit heavier than SL8,
Supersix little bit more aero than SL8
Supersix less stiff than SL8
Supersix more compliant than SL8
Supersix max system weight 129 kg, Tarmac SL8 109 kg
Supersix has probably little bit more tyre clearance
Geometry differences, but not so much than claimed (for example, in size 56 in with mandatory spacers Supersix is 7 mm higher and 6 mm shorter, S/R)
and
different look and shape, paintings and prices.
The difference in weight of "similar" white framesets is 1298g on SSE4 to 1105g on SL8. Which is 15%.
So no "little bit" to "little bit" right?
PS
Also if I remember correctly - SSE was tested with those aero bottles?
Nobody is saying you can’t have a preference and if you like the SL8 better cool. But if you’re going to compare two framesets at least use correct info. My point is just be fair with the comparisons. If it’s aesthetics, that’s all personal preference. But if it’s objective data like weight, use the correct data.
Cannondale SuperSix Evo gen 4
Specialized Crux
Specialized Epic 8
Specialized Crux
Specialized Epic 8
LanceLegstrong wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 11:08 amI think your weights are still off for the SL8. I’m wondering where you got 740g for a 56 Dune White. I’m seeing 807g for a 52, 803g for a 52, and 828g for a 54. So I don’t see how a 56 could weigh that light. The 56 is probably 100g heavier than what you’re quoting. So if we’re going to quote the name of the website, at least give out true information. Or are we not allowed to fact check here?trex wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:50 amI fully understand you.LanceLegstrong wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:03 amI mean, at least be fair with the comparison. I had a RTP S-Works SL8 and now ride a normal non Hi-Mod SuperSix and the difference isn’t even 300g. And it’s not even the Hi-Mod or L71 frame. What are you comparing the white SSE to a bare SL8? People have posted like for like and the difference is like 50g for the frame at most and 30-40g for the fork. My Hylix seatpost is 130g so even with a Darimo you’re looking at 150g difference of you compare similar paint jobs. Nobody is saying the SSE will be lighter. That’s the whole thing for the SL8. But acting like it’s way heavier, and let’s be real even 300g is nothing for a full bike, is not telling the whole truth.trex wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 2:56 pmI just had latest LAB71 EF team replica (ERP) '56 size in my hands: 844g frame with hanger, 454g fork
This, with seatpost + all the small bits, is over 300g more than the s-works sl8 at $500E/$ MSRP more! Preposterous.
Even though I got a really, really good offer - I resigned. My friend at Cannondale LBS says no one wants these ones because of the price to weight ratio and the recurring seatpost problems .
And I’d still take that weight penalty than deal with the speed sniffer look.
Why am I comparing a white frame? Because, believe it or not, it is the only one I was able to order in my size from actual stock.
There was previously a team LAB71 frame available in the Roubaix/RBX paint job, but there are single sizes left. Plus it is vastly painted in a neon pink colour, which will fade immediately.
There is also a frame in WOW (silver/neon green) paintjob colour. My size is not available either.
Nevertheless - let's do it the right way! Apples to apples:
Cannondale Supersix EDR LAB71 56 frame: 844g, Uncut fork 454g
Specialized SL8 S-Works Dune White 56 frame: 740g, Uncut fork 365g
We already have a nearly 200g difference on the white to white framesets.
Add a lighter expander (with the possibility of changing to an even lighter, 3rd party one / not possible on Delta steertube), lighter Di2 mounting solution, lighter axles and Specialized is ballpark 230-250g lighter.
I'm writing this because from what I remember, the title of this forum is ‘weightweenies’ not ‘headtubenoseaestheticweenies’
Perhaps this speaks a little of my anger for the time lost to select and purchase a new frame
I'm a big fan of Cannondale. I've had a dozen of them since my first Volvo F700 (24 years ago?).
But enough is enough.
I understand that Specialized is a bigger company. With its own wind tunnel. With a bigger budget and team. Nevertheless, that didn't stop Cannondale from demanding 500E/$ more for a much inferior frame.
And the fork weight you quoted was from a size 52. My 58 RTP fork was 378g. So a white 56 would likely be closer to 400g, maybe 380g at best.
From what I remember, these ~800g weights were provided by Bespoke Cycling, right? They also reported at the time that the RTP 56 was 741g. It later turned out that it actually weighs ~690g.ome rodriguez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:05 amCorrection S-Works Tarmac SL8 frame in white dune color size 52 is 729g.
Also these ~800g weights were probalby for 10r/non s-works ones:
phillyt1988 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 12:40 pmI've just received a 10r Dune White frameset in a size 49 and the frame weighs 784g which isn't bad at all!
In the case of Cannondale, we have a claimed 770g and an actual 844g.
Last edited by trex on Fri Oct 04, 2024 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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That’s great. But still 2 sizes smaller than what you quoted above. If Specialized has figured out a way to only go 11g in weight from a 52 to a 56, I’d be very impressed.trex wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 11:32 amLanceLegstrong wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 11:08 amI think your weights are still off for the SL8. I’m wondering where you got 740g for a 56 Dune White. I’m seeing 807g for a 52, 803g for a 52, and 828g for a 54. So I don’t see how a 56 could weigh that light. The 56 is probably 100g heavier than what you’re quoting. So if we’re going to quote the name of the website, at least give out true information. Or are we not allowed to fact check here?trex wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:50 amI fully understand you.LanceLegstrong wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:03 am
I mean, at least be fair with the comparison. I had a RTP S-Works SL8 and now ride a normal non Hi-Mod SuperSix and the difference isn’t even 300g. And it’s not even the Hi-Mod or L71 frame. What are you comparing the white SSE to a bare SL8? People have posted like for like and the difference is like 50g for the frame at most and 30-40g for the fork. My Hylix seatpost is 130g so even with a Darimo you’re looking at 150g difference of you compare similar paint jobs. Nobody is saying the SSE will be lighter. That’s the whole thing for the SL8. But acting like it’s way heavier, and let’s be real even 300g is nothing for a full bike, is not telling the whole truth.
And I’d still take that weight penalty than deal with the speed sniffer look.
Why am I comparing a white frame? Because, believe it or not, it is the only one I was able to order in my size from actual stock.
There was previously a team LAB71 frame available in the Roubaix/RBX paint job, but there are single sizes left. Plus it is vastly painted in a neon pink colour, which will fade immediately.
There is also a frame in WOW (silver/neon green) paintjob colour. My size is not available either.
Nevertheless - let's do it the right way! Apples to apples:
Cannondale Supersix EDR LAB71 56 frame: 844g, Uncut fork 454g
Specialized SL8 S-Works Dune White 56 frame: 740g, Uncut fork 365g
We already have a nearly 200g difference on the white to white framesets.
Add a lighter expander (with the possibility of changing to an even lighter, 3rd party one / not possible on Delta steertube), lighter Di2 mounting solution, lighter axles and Specialized is ballpark 230-250g lighter.
I'm writing this because from what I remember, the title of this forum is ‘weightweenies’ not ‘headtubenoseaestheticweenies’
Perhaps this speaks a little of my anger for the time lost to select and purchase a new frame
I'm a big fan of Cannondale. I've had a dozen of them since my first Volvo F700 (24 years ago?).
But enough is enough.
I understand that Specialized is a bigger company. With its own wind tunnel. With a bigger budget and team. Nevertheless, that didn't stop Cannondale from demanding 500E/$ more for a much inferior frame.
And the fork weight you quoted was from a size 52. My 58 RTP fork was 378g. So a white 56 would likely be closer to 400g, maybe 380g at best.ome rodriguez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:05 amCorrection S-Works Tarmac SL8 frame in white dune color size 52 is 729g.
Cannondale SuperSix Evo gen 4
Specialized Crux
Specialized Epic 8
Specialized Crux
Specialized Epic 8
Trex.....why you argue that the Spaz is a better bike than the Cannondale on a Cannondale topic is beyond me.trex wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:01 amJust being accurate: aero difference is 207W on SSE4 to 209W on SL8. Which is less than 1%.GrassQ wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:30 amin generally, based on numbers (mainly Tour magazin)
Supersix little bit heavier than SL8,
Supersix little bit more aero than SL8
Supersix less stiff than SL8
Supersix more compliant than SL8
Supersix max system weight 129 kg, Tarmac SL8 109 kg
Supersix has probably little bit more tyre clearance
Geometry differences, but not so much than claimed (for example, in size 56 in with mandatory spacers Supersix is 7 mm higher and 6 mm shorter, S/R)
and
different look and shape, paintings and prices.
The difference in weight of "similar" white framesets is 1298g on SSE4 to 1105g on SL8. Which is 15%.
So no "little bit" to "little bit" right?
PS
Also if I remember correctly - SSE was tested with those aero bottles?
Even if the Spaz was 200% more aero, 5kg lighter and made coffee before my ride I would STILL not buy it. Because it is a Spaz.
It's just the way of the world.
Different strokes for different folks.
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"
I never wrote that the SL8 is a better bike.
I simply expressed my opinion on the fact that Cannondale is charging 2000E/$ more for the LAB71 version, which seems to be currently heavier than the Hi-Mods. It is also 500E/$ more expensive than the SL8, which is way lighter.
I did not address the matter of appearance, handling, etc. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?
I simply expressed my opinion on the fact that Cannondale is charging 2000E/$ more for the LAB71 version, which seems to be currently heavier than the Hi-Mods. It is also 500E/$ more expensive than the SL8, which is way lighter.
I did not address the matter of appearance, handling, etc. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?
Tour tests all bike with one 750ml round bottle on DT in wind tunnel. SSE hm gen 4 was also tested with non-integrated cockpits. If you want to be fair, put on the Mono, and the same wheels, vs SL8, SSE will be at least 4-5 Watts faster.trex wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:01 amJust being accurate: aero difference is 207W on SSE4 to 209W on SL8. Which is less than 1%.GrassQ wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:30 amin generally, based on numbers (mainly Tour magazin)
Supersix little bit heavier than SL8,
Supersix little bit more aero than SL8
Supersix less stiff than SL8
Supersix more compliant than SL8
Supersix max system weight 129 kg, Tarmac SL8 109 kg
Supersix has probably little bit more tyre clearance
Geometry differences, but not so much than claimed (for example, in size 56 in with mandatory spacers Supersix is 7 mm higher and 6 mm shorter, S/R)
and
different look and shape, paintings and prices.
The difference in weight of "similar" white framesets is 1298g on SSE4 to 1105g on SL8. Which is 15%.
So no "little bit" to "little bit" right?
PS
Also if I remember correctly - SSE was tested with those aero bottles?
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I pretty sure no one in this thread REALLY cares about the weight difference of an SL8 and a SuperSix Evo. If they did, they would have purchased an SL8. Also, if you want an S-Works SL8, buy and S-Works SL8! If you care about 500 grams, you can leave your saddle bag and cellphone at home when you ride. Better yet, if we all really care about weight we can all stop eating junk food and drinking beers on the weekend.trex wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:50 amI fully understand you.
Why am I comparing a white frame? Because, believe it or not, it is the only one I was able to order in my size from actual stock.
There was previously a team LAB71 frame available in the Roubaix/RBX paint job, but there are single sizes left. Plus it is vastly painted in a neon pink colour, which will fade immediately.
There is also a frame in WOW (silver/neon green) paintjob colour. My size is not available either.
Nevertheless - let's do it the right way! Apples to apples:
Cannondale Supersix EDR LAB71 56 frame: 844g, Uncut fork 454g
Specialized SL8 S-Works Dune White 56 frame: 740g, Uncut fork 365g
We already have a nearly 200g difference on the white to white framesets.
Add a lighter expander (with the possibility of changing to an even lighter, 3rd party one / not possible on Delta steertube), lighter Di2 mounting solution, lighter axles and Specialized is ballpark 230-250g lighter.
I'm writing this because from what I remember, the title of this forum is ‘weightweenies’ not ‘headtubenoseaestheticweenies’
Perhaps this speaks a little of my anger for the time lost to select and purchase a new frame
I'm a big fan of Cannondale. I've had a dozen of them since my first Volvo F700 (24 years ago?).
But enough is enough.
I understand that Specialized is a bigger company. With its own wind tunnel. With a bigger budget and team. Nevertheless, that didn't stop Cannondale from demanding 500E/$ more for a much inferior frame.
Every professional peloton is filled with 6.8 kilo SL8s and the majority of those riders never win a stage or a grand tour. There's a lot more than 500 grams that goes into winning a bike race.
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Yea you did.
I mean, what did you expect in a SuperSix thread when you come in saying it’s an inferior bike to the SL8, then claim it’s like 300g heavier, only to be proven wrong. You can have your tastes, but at least be fair in your comparison of objective data. And don’t act like you haven’t said that you think the SL8 is better. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I think there’s a thread on here for you to discuss the SL8.
Cannondale SuperSix Evo gen 4
Specialized Crux
Specialized Epic 8
Specialized Crux
Specialized Epic 8
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Here's a link to a Bike Rader article about the weight of Tour De France bikes: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/tech ... ke-weights
Yep, same here. They're small, so not super concerned just yet as the steerer material is quite thick, but as one who's had a steerer tube snap at the stem while riding, it definitely has my attention. Got lucky once, not wanting a repeat of that...eddymurks wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 6:12 pmHas anyone had issues with indentations on the front edge of the delta steerer? I removed my stem and have noticed small indented lines, running horizontally. They are not from over tightening as they are where spacers sit below my stem. Everything else has been torqued and preloaded correctly so I'm a bit concerned as to what has caused them... wondering if there may be miniscule play as the round spacers move against the triangular steerer profile.
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