NEW new Madone 2025

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

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spdntrxi
Posts: 5995
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

yup..Ill try the bottles
2024 BMC TeamMachine R
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Nickldn
Posts: 2006
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Lina wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:49 pm
Yeah using your own proprietary aero bottles for aero numbers is just taking a piss at your customers. No one will be using those bottles in real life. Bars, etc. parts on the bike that most people will never change is understandable. But then using position changes like Trek did with the previous Madone release is just as much of a piss take.
Look, the more proprietary gubbins companies can squeeze in to improve the marketing position of their bikes' aero numbers, the more they will do it.

Spec did it with the new Roval Rapide integrated bars on the SL8, Giant has bottle cages with fairings for the Propel, Cannondale and Trek use special bottles.

At least with bars there is no choice but to use them once they are on the bike, but IMO proprietary bottles and special cages is pushing it.

In the end we all should be clever enough to decide if we're being conned, or if the manufacturer is being reasonably open about their product.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

S-Works SL8 Dune White SRAM Red AXS Craft CS5060 wheels Roval Rapide bars 6.6kg

by Weenie


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bmrk
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:03 pm

by bmrk

cleanneon98 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:00 pm
I think they intentionally said the SL gets "the same performance" and not "the same aero" because the disclaimer will be that this is on a course with __ elevation where the weight comes into play. Then they talk about the SLR having the same aero as before (because the SLR comes with those bottles).

Also cute at the start they said the bike was supposed to be the new Emonda but claim that they were able to get the aero close enough to where they decided to push themselves and turn it into this best of both worlds bike. Has nothing at all to do with their struggles as a business and need to eliminate products to survive, at least that wouldn't sound as sexy on the webinar

I'd still have the Gen 8 over the SL8 or SSE, but I absolutely hate dropped seatstays and have had good experience with buying and owning TREK bikes and their service and warranty is fantastic. I expect this bike to sell well, just wish it looked more like the Madone and less like Emonda even if that meant a little weight penalty because weight wise it's still not on par with the SL8 or SSE71
In my opnion the iso thing is a distinguishing feature, but also a solution searching for a problem.

He explicitly claims the gen8 SL is a better performer than a gen 7 SLR. :grimacing:
g8g7.jpg

The new and improved carbon from the webminar.
g8ht1.jpg
g8ht2.jpg

cleanneon98
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:26 pm

by cleanneon98

The IsoFlow is a bit gimmicky but it does do what they wanted. Deep tubes used to ride like shit, so they added iso speed which was heavy and led to some warranty issues but if they went without it, the bike would ride like shit again. So they removed the IsoSpeed and added the hole and cantilever to give the seatpost more flex than you'd normally get out of something so deep, and having recently ridden behind a Gen 6 Madone the bike from behind is quite a bit more broad and chunky than the Gen 7. I don't know how much air flows through that hole or how effective it is but the Gen 7 did test like 7w faster in Tour test than Gen 6 and still rides very well so it's definitely doing something

That being said on the Gen 8 with the shallower tubes I don't think it's making as much of an impact. I gotta say though, riding the Gen 7 every time you look over and see your shadow from any angle, the bike looks cool. When the sun is behind you you see the hole, if it's next to you then your silhouette has that distinct cantilever and it just looks like nothing else. I don't know why I like it so much but the aggressive Batmobile fighter jet look just gets me hype to ride
TREK Madone Gen 7 SLR - 7.43kg
TREK Fuel EX Gen 5 - overbuilt and overweight

bmrk
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:03 pm

by bmrk

cleanneon98 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:27 pm
The IsoFlow is a bit gimmicky but it does do what they wanted. Deep tubes used to ride like shit, so they added iso speed which was heavy and led to some warranty issues but if they went without it, the bike would ride like shit again. So they removed the IsoSpeed and added the hole and cantilever to give the seatpost more flex than you'd normally get out of something so deep, and having recently ridden behind a Gen 6 Madone the bike from behind is quite a bit more broad and chunky than the Gen 7. I don't know how much air flows through that hole or how effective it is but the Gen 7 did test like 7w faster in Tour test than Gen 6 and still rides very well so it's definitely doing something

That being said on the Gen 8 with the shallower tubes I don't think it's making as much of an impact. I gotta say though, riding the Gen 7 every time you look over and see your shadow from any angle, the bike looks cool. When the sun is behind you you see the hole, if it's next to you then your silhouette has that distinct cantilever and it just looks like nothing else. I don't know why I like it so much but the aggressive Batmobile fighter jet look just gets me hype to ride
Agreed, In the gen7 the isoflow is a distinguishing feature. On the gen8 it looks out of place given the tubes depth.

wozzo
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon May 09, 2022 1:43 am

by wozzo

cleanneon98 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:00 pm
Also cute at the start they said the bike was supposed to be the new Emonda but claim that they were able to get the aero close enough to where they decided to push themselves and turn it into this best of both worlds bike. Has nothing at all to do with their struggles as a business and need to eliminate products to survive, at least that wouldn't sound as sexy on the webinar
Haha. Same with cutting 2 sizes from the range. She says it like this is extra feature, all done for us - customers. When in reality this is even more skus gone from their inventory.

cleanneon98
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:26 pm

by cleanneon98

Less sizes really not ideal but they are using size specific tubes which IS a good thing, the Gen 7 in smaller sizes looks pretty atrocious IMO. They said they design in a 56 and scale up and down from there but less sizes means at some point someone who used to fit on a 54 or 58 or whatever else may find themselves between sizes and needing to change seatpost for offset or cockpits for reach, and that one piece cockpit is NOT cheap to replace. The 54 used to come with a 90mm stem and 56 with a 100, j forget exactly which sizes are consolidated under the new system but if for example 54 and 56 are now both the M/L that means the bikes which were previously 30mm apart in reach are now sharing the same sizing, not ideal. This also allows them to encourage P1 because you can configure all the lengths and stuff how you want, but also encourages customers to upgrade other components and paints and spend more. I really liked the P1 experience when I did it though, but not everyone wants to go that route
TREK Madone Gen 7 SLR - 7.43kg
TREK Fuel EX Gen 5 - overbuilt and overweight

Lina
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

Nickldn wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:14 pm
Lina wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:49 pm
Yeah using your own proprietary aero bottles for aero numbers is just taking a piss at your customers. No one will be using those bottles in real life. Bars, etc. parts on the bike that most people will never change is understandable. But then using position changes like Trek did with the previous Madone release is just as much of a piss take.
Look, the more proprietary gubbins companies can squeeze in to improve the marketing position of their bikes' aero numbers, the more they will do it.

Spec did it with the new Roval Rapide integrated bars on the SL8, Giant has bottle cages with fairings for the Propel, Cannondale and Trek use special bottles.

At least with bars there is no choice but to use them once they are on the bike, but IMO proprietary bottles and special cages is pushing it.

In the end we all should be clever enough to decide if we're being conned, or if the manufacturer is being reasonably open about their product.
You can use any bar you want with Specialized bikes, of course most people won't change what comes with the bike but it's possible. If the fairing bottle cages work with round bottles then that's imo excellent thinking from the manufacturer.

proffate
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:39 am

by proffate

One of the main reasons I'm interested in a madone over a supersix or sl8 is the handlebars. The backsweep, slight flare etc all look ideal given my tastes. SSE in particular comes with garbage bars at all levels (imo), not to mention wheels I don't want. I also like trek paint jobs way more than Cannondale, which is probably the biggest reason I've not pulled the trigger on the SSE given its availability. It's sad that I can't just buy the madone barstem and put on another frame, but I may try out the non integrated version. I think Trek's philosophy on bars matching my own is not surprising because I'm a big fan of the coefficient bars and the guy behind those bars is a performance manager on lidltrek, or something. Although there was another eye rolling moment in the video when they said the thicker ("chonky") bars were faster because they slowed the wind down more. I'm pretty sure peak torque debunked that already.

The other reason to like trek is the 62cm H1.5 is close to my ideal geo (SSE 61cm is very similar). But in this video they say they've combined the 60 and 62 which makes me somewhat nervous. Tall bikes with excess spacers look gawdawful. Seems they are saying they don't care to cater to my demographic any more.

These aero bottles look almost impossible to live with. One, I've never seen aero bottles that actually stay in their cages. Two, you can't even place them upright on a flat surface like your counter top or your car's cupholder. Three, they're harder to suck the liquid out of. I could go on but everyone already knows the other drawbacks. All in the name of 1.7w. Terrible trade.

They should have combined the emonda and Domane instead (a la Fray, Ouray etc). Can't you make a bike both light and comfortable for the cafe run crowd?

proffate
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:39 am

by proffate

Lina wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:14 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:14 pm
Lina wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:49 pm
Yeah using your own proprietary aero bottles for aero numbers is just taking a piss at your customers. No one will be using those bottles in real life. Bars, etc. parts on the bike that most people will never change is understandable. But then using position changes like Trek did with the previous Madone release is just as much of a piss take.
Look, the more proprietary gubbins companies can squeeze in to improve the marketing position of their bikes' aero numbers, the more they will do it.

Spec did it with the new Roval Rapide integrated bars on the SL8, Giant has bottle cages with fairings for the Propel, Cannondale and Trek use special bottles.

At least with bars there is no choice but to use them once they are on the bike, but IMO proprietary bottles and special cages is pushing it.

In the end we all should be clever enough to decide if we're being conned, or if the manufacturer is being reasonably open about their product.
You can use any bar you want with Specialized bikes, of course most people won't change what comes with the bike but it's possible. If the fairing bottle cages work with round bottles then that's imo excellent thinking from the manufacturer.
Sure, buy an sworks for 14k+tax, with the price of $500 bars baked in, then spend another huge chunk of change on a normal stem and enve bars (or whatever), plus $250 for labor to swap it out. That makes tons of sense.

bmrk
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2023 4:03 pm

by bmrk

proffate wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:33 pm
Lina wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:14 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:14 pm
Lina wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:49 pm
Yeah using your own proprietary aero bottles for aero numbers is just taking a piss at your customers. No one will be using those bottles in real life. Bars, etc. parts on the bike that most people will never change is understandable. But then using position changes like Trek did with the previous Madone release is just as much of a piss take.
Look, the more proprietary gubbins companies can squeeze in to improve the marketing position of their bikes' aero numbers, the more they will do it.

Spec did it with the new Roval Rapide integrated bars on the SL8, Giant has bottle cages with fairings for the Propel, Cannondale and Trek use special bottles.

At least with bars there is no choice but to use them once they are on the bike, but IMO proprietary bottles and special cages is pushing it.

In the end we all should be clever enough to decide if we're being conned, or if the manufacturer is being reasonably open about their product.
You can use any bar you want with Specialized bikes, of course most people won't change what comes with the bike but it's possible. If the fairing bottle cages work with round bottles then that's imo excellent thinking from the manufacturer.
Sure, buy an sworks for 14k+tax, with the price of $500 bars baked in, then spend another huge chunk of change on a normal stem and enve bars (or whatever), plus $250 for labor to swap it out. That makes tons of sense.
If you go this route with a 14k bike instead of buying the frame and custom build with the exact parts you need, money is no issue for you. if money is an issue and you still pursue this route you have more important things to address.

Lina
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

proffate wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:33 pm
Lina wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:14 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:14 pm
Lina wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:49 pm
Yeah using your own proprietary aero bottles for aero numbers is just taking a piss at your customers. No one will be using those bottles in real life. Bars, etc. parts on the bike that most people will never change is understandable. But then using position changes like Trek did with the previous Madone release is just as much of a piss take.
Look, the more proprietary gubbins companies can squeeze in to improve the marketing position of their bikes' aero numbers, the more they will do it.

Spec did it with the new Roval Rapide integrated bars on the SL8, Giant has bottle cages with fairings for the Propel, Cannondale and Trek use special bottles.

At least with bars there is no choice but to use them once they are on the bike, but IMO proprietary bottles and special cages is pushing it.

In the end we all should be clever enough to decide if we're being conned, or if the manufacturer is being reasonably open about their product.
You can use any bar you want with Specialized bikes, of course most people won't change what comes with the bike but it's possible. If the fairing bottle cages work with round bottles then that's imo excellent thinking from the manufacturer.
Sure, buy an sworks for 14k+tax, with the price of $500 bars baked in, then spend another huge chunk of change on a normal stem and enve bars (or whatever), plus $250 for labor to swap it out. That makes tons of sense.
Or you know, do like everyone that wants non-standard parts in their build. Buy the frameset and build it up from there. You get to pick your parts like bars, saddle, wheels and still come out cheaper most of the time.

cleanneon98
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:26 pm

by cleanneon98

With TREK this is less of a problem since they have P1 for the SLR models where you can pick your bar stem combo (unless they dont offer one you like), and the SL models aren't offered through P1 but have a two peice setup and are easier to tweak. At least on the Gen 7 there were 3 headset caps depending on whether you wanted to run a standard stem, the semi-integrated RCS stem, or the RSL one piece, and I'm hoping this will carry over. I don't think you can fully customize the SL8 or SSE this way when you buy them, and I recall hearing you can't even run a non-Specialized stem on the SL8 (not sure for the SSE and that weird steerer setup) CORRECTION you can run aftermarket stems on both bikes. This is really a non issue for most riders who are fine with a "close enough" fit and buying these top tier bikes for their cafe rides.
Last edited by cleanneon98 on Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TREK Madone Gen 7 SLR - 7.43kg
TREK Fuel EX Gen 5 - overbuilt and overweight

cajer
Posts: 723
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

bmrk wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:20 pm
cleanneon98 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 2:00 pm
I think they intentionally said the SL gets "the same performance" and not "the same aero" because the disclaimer will be that this is on a course with __ elevation where the weight comes into play. Then they talk about the SLR having the same aero as before (because the SLR comes with those bottles).

Also cute at the start they said the bike was supposed to be the new Emonda but claim that they were able to get the aero close enough to where they decided to push themselves and turn it into this best of both worlds bike. Has nothing at all to do with their struggles as a business and need to eliminate products to survive, at least that wouldn't sound as sexy on the webinar

I'd still have the Gen 8 over the SL8 or SSE, but I absolutely hate dropped seatstays and have had good experience with buying and owning TREK bikes and their service and warranty is fantastic. I expect this bike to sell well, just wish it looked more like the Madone and less like Emonda even if that meant a little weight penalty because weight wise it's still not on par with the SL8 or SSE71
In my opnion the iso thing is a distinguishing feature, but also a solution searching for a problem.

He explicitly claims the gen8 SL is a better performer than a gen 7 SLR. :grimacing:
g8g7.jpg


The new and improved carbon from the webminar.
g8ht1.jpg
g8ht2.jpg
Any info on aero from the bottles and if they will be availbe seperately?

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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BikeTyson
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:16 pm

by BikeTyson

cleanneon98 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 5:04 pm
With TREK this is less of a problem since they have P1 for the SLR models where you can pick your bar stem combo (unless they dont offer one you like), and the SL models aren't offered through P1 but have a two peice setup and are easier to tweak. At least on the Gen 7 there were 3 headset caps depending on whether you wanted to run a standard stem, the semi-integrated RCS stem, or the RSL one piece, and I'm hoping this will carry over. I don't think you can fully customize the SL8 or SSE this way when you buy them, and I recall hearing you can't even run a non-Specialized stem on the SL8 (not sure for the SSE and that weird steerer setup). This is really a non issue for most riders who are fine with a "close enough" fit and buying these top tier bikes for their cafe rides.
You can run any stem on the SL8. I ran a Black Inc cockpit on mine. And there are even adaptors for Enve stems for a clean transition. Same with the SSE from what I’ve gathered on that thread. I’ve seen more than a few Enve stems and Black Inc on Instagram. A lot of aftermarket spacer options for both bikes.

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