Factor Ostro

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

To buy something new could fall under same senses as getting in love. If anyone care to read what happens in our mind, do it.
I think we are assessing things to be more as we want them to be, more so than we understand.
The better way would probably be to land and then re-evaluate.
There's also things to read about how much we think come from our own minds, but in truth we are heavily affected by inputs.
So when it comes to consumerism and especially things you love, you are partly stupid and blind.
Not saying people buy crap, not at all. But still we are seeing things a bit like a drunk dude looking for a female.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

@wheelsONfire, you are true philosopher. We are all richer for the fact that English is your second language.

And yes, I think you nailed it - emotion being a driver of seemingly irrational ("stupid and blind") consumer behaviour. We are willing to pay for an emotional state as much as a physical product - the essence of branding.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

basilic
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Location: Geneva, Switzerland

by basilic

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:27 pm
Expensive bikes are worth the price for which they sold precisely because they sold.
Sure, when you use "worth it" in this sense, everything is worth it (but then why bother saying it).
For most non-marketing people it means something slightly different. You buy something, then realize that it doesn't deliver what you hoped for, and conclude it wasn't worth it. Or it exceeds your expectations, and it was "worth every penny." So wheelsonfire is saying these expensive bikes won't make you faster, and the chicks don't care if it says s-works on the downtube.

dalex
Posts: 55
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by dalex

Mr.Gib wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:48 am
Some consumers on the margins of this segment may have to move down a level and buy a Giant Propel instead of an Ostro.
When I bought my Ostro at the start of this year direct from Factor, for where I live it cost me *less* than than the Propel with equivalent spec (Advanced SL 0). At the same time, unlike the Propel, it was a) actually available, and b) I could specify the exact cockpit dimensions and seatpost layback that I wanted. In fact, my Giant distributor in the country I live in (Switzerland) ordered precisely zero Propels for the 2023 season!

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

dalex wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2023 9:20 am
When I bought my Ostro at the start of this year direct from Factor, for where I live it cost me *less* than than the Propel with equivalent spec (Advanced SL 0). At the same time, unlike the Propel, it was a) actually available, and b) I could specify the exact cockpit dimensions and seatpost layback that I wanted. In fact, my Giant distributor in the country I live in (Switzerland) ordered precisely zero Propels for the 2023 season!
I guess it really depends on the country (and I find it interesting that the pricing varies THAT much). Through my local Giant dealer, I can preorder the Advanced SL frameset at less than HALF the price of the Ostro frameset (would be around right at 50% when adding the cockpit for the Giant).
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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

basilic wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2023 8:09 am
Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:27 pm
Expensive bikes are worth the price for which they sold precisely because they sold.
Sure, when you use "worth it" in this sense, everything is worth it (but then why bother saying it).
For most non-marketing people it means something slightly different. You buy something, then realize that it doesn't deliver what you hoped for, and conclude it wasn't worth it. Or it exceeds your expectations, and it was "worth every penny." So wheelsonfire is saying these expensive bikes won't make you faster, and the chicks don't care if it says s-works on the downtube.
I can only look at the Ostro's value in terms of the total collective of customers is serves - a fair number have been sold and the brand is thriving so it must be "worth it" in my crude estimation. If we move down to the single consumer level then yes, reactions will range from "never heard of it", to "I want one in each colour". In that case n is too small to conclude anything about value in the market.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Jz91
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by Jz91

As posted under the tour section:

Gonna leave it here: Can bikes actually get any more aero, or is the arms race over?

Gitelis unsurprisingly showed total confidence in what was to come, telling us; “the next bike we release will have a significant improvement” over its current Ostro VAM aero bike. The main facilitator for this, he explained “Is because we can afford to do the work now, and we have the know-how and the people”

CAAD8FRED
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by CAAD8FRED

Jz91 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:11 am
As posted under the tour section:

Gonna leave it here: Can bikes actually get any more aero, or is the arms race over?

Gitelis unsurprisingly showed total confidence in what was to come, telling us; “the next bike we release will have a significant improvement” over its current Ostro VAM aero bike. The main facilitator for this, he explained “Is because we can afford to do the work now, and we have the know-how and the people”
They also said the new O2 VAM was almost as fast as the Ostro and it tested at 228 watts iirc in latest tour test

allrandomletters
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by allrandomletters

They said O2 VAM was almost as fast as the Ostro at narrow yaw angles (-5W at 0 to 5 yaw). Tour tests a much broader spread of yaw angles (-20 to 20 yaw). Shallow vs deep wheels show little drag difference at 0 yaw. The big differences only come out at wider yaw. I expect the same for frames, so a 5W deficit at 0 yaw would become much greater across a broader sweep of angles. The parameters between Factors claim and the Tour test are totally different, so both can be true.

Sources:
viewtopic.php?f=132&t=172719
https://factorbikes.com/bikes/o2-vam
"In the wind tunnel, at effective wind angles of 0-5 degrees (ie a calm day, or headwind to moderate crosswind) the new O2 VAM is only 5W behind the OSTRO VAM"

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Jz91 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:11 am
As posted under the tour section:

Gonna leave it here: Can bikes actually get any more aero, or is the arms race over?

Gitelis unsurprisingly showed total confidence in what was to come, telling us; “the next bike we release will have a significant improvement” over its current Ostro VAM aero bike. The main facilitator for this, he explained “Is because we can afford to do the work now, and we have the know-how and the people”
The aero arms race is not over but don't expect any significant gains. While manufacturers will find some wrinkle in the data to make a bold claim of improvement, we all know that their excitement will be little more than an attempt to generate buzz, and the actual magnitude of the claimed improvements will be so small that they will never be worth the dodgy seatpost, uncomfortable handlebar, ugly design, impossible cable routing, etc. etc. that may be required.

The zero degree yaw result for non-aero frames is again a reminder of how elusive the actual benefits of an aero frame can be. I bought an Ostro because I like the appearance. To go faster I bought fast tires, deep wheels, aero helmet, and set the bike up aggressively.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Mr.Gib wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:14 pm
Jz91 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:11 am
As posted under the tour section:

Gonna leave it here: Can bikes actually get any more aero, or is the arms race over?

Gitelis unsurprisingly showed total confidence in what was to come, telling us; “the next bike we release will have a significant improvement” over its current Ostro VAM aero bike. The main facilitator for this, he explained “Is because we can afford to do the work now, and we have the know-how and the people”
The aero arms race is not over but don't expect any significant gains. While manufacturers will find some wrinkle in the data to make a bold claim of improvement, we all know that their excitement will be little more than an attempt to generate buzz, and the actual magnitude of the claimed improvements will be so small that they will never be worth the dodgy seatpost, uncomfortable handlebar, ugly design, impossible cable routing, etc. etc. that may be required.

The zero degree yaw result for non-aero frames is again a reminder of how elusive the actual benefits of an aero frame can be. I bought an Ostro because I like the appearance. To go faster I bought fast tires, deep wheels, aero helmet, and set the bike up aggressively.

There's even more to that. My Domane RSL has 80mm BB drop while my Madone has 70mm. I race on 30mm WAM tires on either bike so I am 1cm lower to the ground on the Domane in an equivalent body position. This is particularly useful when trying to stay in the draft of smaller riders. I bet I save kJ racing my Domane RSL over my Madone more often than not.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

An interesting point. While I am happy to argue in favour of an aero bike, this is the sort of thing that makes the debate between aero bikes more suspect.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

lluisma
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:58 pm

by lluisma

ucsfl05 wrote:have people had slipping with the factory seatpost?
Me, during the first two months.
I even went so far as to buy a special glue for screws, since I read that someone had also encountered the same problem. But I haven't used it, because now it hasn't loosened for weeks.
If it happens again, I will put it into practice, since that glue fixes the thread, but not irreversibly.

Enviado desde mi SM-S916B mediante Tapatalk


miOdiO
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:54 pm

by miOdiO

Jz91 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:11 am
As posted under the tour section:

Gonna leave it here: Can bikes actually get any more aero, or is the arms race over?

Gitelis unsurprisingly showed total confidence in what was to come, telling us; “the next bike we release will have a significant improvement” over its current Ostro VAM aero bike. The main facilitator for this, he explained “Is because we can afford to do the work now, and we have the know-how and the people”
So any idea when the new bike will be announced? Start of the new season or later in the season around the bigger races? Or is this just some teasing for a bike in the far future?

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Hexsense
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by Hexsense

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:29 pm
There's even more to that. My Domane RSL has 80mm BB drop while my Madone has 70mm. I race on 30mm WAM tires on either bike so I am 1cm lower to the ground on the Domane in an equivalent body position. This is particularly useful when trying to stay in the draft of smaller riders. I bet I save kJ racing my Domane RSL over my Madone more often than not.
I now wishing for more bb drop since I am now testing 155mm crank...
Any 85mm bb drop out there?

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