*NEW GEN* SRAM Force Groupset March 2023

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mrbrown4001
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:42 am

by mrbrown4001

kervelo wrote:Info about the new Apex AXS:
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/sram- ... um=twitter
Super excited for this since I don’t really care about weight that much. Hopefully the price isn’t too crazy


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StiffWeenies
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

kervelo wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:05 pm
Info about the new Apex AXS:
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/sram- ... um=twitter
Wow!

Hopefully this will push Shimano to come out with an 11s Tiagra Di2

robertbb
Posts: 1948
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Article suggests it'll be 12 speed but I don't see why one would want four electronic 12 speed groups.

11-speed Apex would be kinda cool I think.

jlok
Posts: 2090
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

robertbb wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:59 am
Article suggests it'll be 12 speed but I don't see why one would want four electronic 12 speed groups.

11-speed Apex would be kinda cool I think.
Maybe Apex eTap AXS x11 as downgraded Rival, keep Rival at x12 and Force/Red go x13.
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StiffWeenies
Posts: 419
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by StiffWeenies

robertbb wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:59 am
Article suggests it'll be 12 speed but I don't see why one would want four electronic 12 speed groups.

11-speed Apex would be kinda cool I think.
The problem for Apex is that Rival is already quite low end with 4th tier features like solid cranks and a worse clutch

but if they gave Rival hollow cranks then it'd really start cannabalising Force sales

apart from alloy lever blades (vs Rival's LFRT) and 1x XPLR only (don't see them going back to no clutch or 11s), there's not much else they can do to downgrade Apex
Last edited by StiffWeenies on Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10943
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by TobinHatesYou

11-speed Apex AXS makes a lot of sense from a cost-cutting perspective. It is a clear "downgrade" from the next lowest tier and it means SRAM already has cheap compatible cassettes (XDR not necessary) and chains. The 11-speed Red eTap "A2" RD is physically identical to the Red AXS RD. They can just do the same with the Rival AXS RD. Now also add an optional Apex trigger shifter for flat-bar bikes and you have a winner. There's so few barriers to entry, SRAM would be silly not to do it.

I don't know that I'd call a coil spring based clutch worse than Orbit. It's heavier, but it operates on the same basic principles. From a durability standpoint I honestly couldn't tell you which is going to last longer.

robertbb
Posts: 1948
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:21 am
11-speed Apex AXS makes a lot of sense from a cost-cutting perspective. It is a clear "downgrade" from the next lowest tier and it means SRAM already has cheap compatible cassettes (XDR not necessary) and chains. The 11-speed Red eTap "A2" RD is physically identical to the Red AXS RD. They can just do the same with the Rival AXS RD. Now also add an optional Apex trigger shifter for flat-bar bikes and you have a winner. There's so few barriers to entry, SRAM would be silly not to do it.

I don't know that I'd call a coil spring based clutch worse than Orbit. It's heavier, but it operates on the same basic principles. From a durability standpoint I honestly couldn't tell you which is going to last longer.
Yep, I like it!

They may also decide to make it 1x specific and not produce a front derailleur for it at all.

If I were involved in product development/placement, I'd also be pushing for SRAM APEX branded cable disc brake calipers - for commuters, tourers, even cheaper price points I think it's really needed to round out the package.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

robertbb wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:31 am

Yep, I like it!

Aaaand it's throwing a bone to 11-speed Red eTap owners if SRAM chooses to make it backward compatible.

dqgo
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:28 am

by dqgo

https://cyclingtips.com/2022/12/are-the ... xs-levers/ some new shifters that look like the Rival AXS shifters spotted by cyclingtips

BigBoyND
Posts: 890
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

dqgo wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:45 am
https://cyclingtips.com/2022/12/are-the ... xs-levers/ some new shifters that look like the Rival AXS shifters spotted by cyclingtips
"Take from that what you will, but I am pretty sure SRAM would want to shout from the rooftops if three of the best CX racers on the planet were using its current entry-level levers at the very highest level of competition."

I think the opposite. Wouldn't it be embarrassing if they hated Force/Red levers enough to use Rival?
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RDY
Posts: 1490
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by RDY

dqgo wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:45 am
https://cyclingtips.com/2022/12/are-the ... xs-levers/ some new shifters that look like the Rival AXS shifters spotted by cyclingtips
Juding by SRAM's comment they're Rival AXS shifters with a carbon lever blade and custom paint job, specifically for sponsored athletes that requested it. It being a smaller hood. Though unless you have very small hands I'm not sure why you'd want that for CX (or gravel).

Re: Apex. I'm sure it'll be 11 speed. It'd be such an easy upgrade path for masses of people on 10 and 11 speed bikes currently. They can essentially keep it Rival level in terms of weight and quality, but at lower price then, which is what would see them take the biggest bite of market share from Shimano's now aging Tiagra, and mechanical 105. And they have a good opportunity to catch Shimano with their pants down - 105 Di2 was brought forward signficantly due to Rival AXS. I think it would take them much longer to respond to Apex AXS 11.

usr
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

Earlyer SRAM wireless shifters used separate chips for their custom radio and for their Bluetooth maintenance connection (an Atmel that's too tiny to do any Bluetooth, and a separate nrf52 for the BLE they added when getting rid of the "firmware update dongle", this was the time when every powermeter manufacturer in the world went from ant+ to ant+ + BLE thanks to the introduction of the nrf52832) whereas in the more recent Rival they have consolidated both on a single nrf52. They are easily powerful enough, I guess earlier the software just wasn't ready yet.

Chances are the Rival shifters are better in every way except for some deliberate weight penalty from cheaper materials (if they even are cheaper) in the mechanical parts. It wouldn't make sense for them to keep chugging out more of the outdated boards (and matching shifter shape) just to earn less money per sale. Chances are the consolidated board is lighter, cheaper to make, more reliable and might even last longer on a single battery. This is not the realm of "choose two". Trickle-up is a thing when the high end is first to market.

ichobi
Posts: 1463
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

Seems like CX is the debuting ground for SRAM latest groupset. Afaic, both sram red etap and the etap axs were both “spyshotte” at cx races.


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10943
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

ichobi wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:57 am
Seems like CX is the debuting ground for SRAM latest groupset. Afaic, both sram red etap and the etap axs were both “spyshotte” at cx races.

The timing is right with CX season. SRAM has traditionally released new groups in the Dec-Feb timeframe. Then again original eTap was SRAM's worst kept secret and was hidden in plain sight for 1.5 years before release at road races, sometimes with unconvincing fake cables/wires hanging off the hardware.
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by Weenie


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tmrace
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:13 am

by tmrace

I'm hoping that SRAM will shift to use mineral oil like they did this year with their DB8 brakes.

I heard that there is a dealer presentation on the new group happening over the next couple weeks.

Maybe we can gather some more information when those presentations start.

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