Latex vs tubeless

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

MikeD
Posts: 875
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

TobinHatesYou wrote:
MikeD wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:40 pm

Orange Seal regular is good and I've used it for a long time. I've had sealing problems with the endurance version though. What I don't like about Orange Seal is that you have to shake the bottle vigorously and that makes the sealant foam up. It's almost impossible to measure out the right amount of sealant when it's foamed. You could use weight though. OS is not CO2 compatible either. Those two issues are addressed by Milkit sealant, which I'm using now. It doesn’t require shaking and is CO2 compatible and is injectable through the valve. I can't vouch for how good it seals flats yet, as compared to OS nor how fast it dries out. No flats with it yet. Reviews are good.

I weigh my sealant. It's easy to do. Orange Seal is just as CO2 compatible as pretty much anything else. They're almost all water and propylene glycol based. If using CO2, inflated with the valve at 12 o'clock. Release all the CO2 when you get home.
You're not saying that all latex based sealants are basically the same?

Another thing about OS that I've observed is that it uses shiny metal particles to help plug holes. These small flakes of metal separate out which is probably why you need to shake the bottle vigorously before application. Obviously I'm not shaking the bottle enough because there was a bunch in the measuring cup left when I used up a bottle. Milkit uses small, light particles that stay in suspension. I think that's a lot better because those particles in OS aren't going to stay in suspension inside your tire either. If the constituents in OS need to be mixed when it's already in your tire for it to seal, then that's maybe an issue too, although tire rotation may be sufficient to mix it up.

I'm not saying that OS isn't good; just saying that I'd like something better. Maybe Milkit is it, or maybe not. However, I'm not happy with OS Endurance though. I've had too many small leaks that didn't seal fast enough/left a puddle of sealant on the garage floor and a mess on my bike. I think that if you've had it in your tire for months, even though it's still liquid, at that point it doesn't seal very well anymore. A fresh addition of new Endurance sealant into the tire sealed it almost instantly (a thorn puncture).

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
PinaRene
Posts: 1010
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:08 pm

by PinaRene

What I don't understand is the fact that most people add sealant every now and then ( from 4-8 weeks time ). I never did that with tubulars, and neither I will do that with my tubeless setup.

With my tubulars I took some sealant with me ( 50ml), only to stop a leak ( and no sealant to prevent a flat tire ). With my tubeless setup I add what is needed to have an airtight seal. Not more , not less : for Schwalbe Pro Lte it's about 20ml per tire , with my Veloflex it took aprox 50ml per tire.

Now I just ride and when I flat, and the sealant won't rescue me, there is always my little 50ml container of sealant that can do the job.

Thnx

maxima
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:37 am

by maxima

Lina wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:35 pm
maxima wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:19 pm
Tobin You using the Orange Seal Endurance or Normal formula. My local bike shops within 1000 miles do not carry orange seal and shipping liquid so far been reject by a few online shops. Let's see where I can get any online shop to ship. Have use Joe's sealant but experience so far is bad, doesn't seal any way!!!
Where do you live that you don't have a shop within 1000 miles carry Orange seal. And how many online shops have you tried? I've bought a ton of sealant, and other fluids online and literally never had a problem of getting it shipped.
base out of Asia now and even try to hand carrry 2x 500ml bottles back on a flight back to Asia and was remove at custom baggage check in :cry:

A few online shop i frequent will not ship liquid overseas........

Over here is all Joe's Muc Off and Silca sealant.....there is no presence of ORANGE SEAL nor Agent that carries it

DHG01
Posts: 604
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:28 pm
maxima wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:17 am
I remove my GP 5000 STR 28mm that was fill with 80ml of Silca the past 4 to 5 weeks and all have been dry up. I'm going to try something else as removing all the dry up sealant is a pain and just doesn't make sense.

Latex tubes or Light TPU tubes will be a better choice for people with no time to mess around with dry up sealant every 4 weeks that add 60-80grms to the tyres. The best part is a few local bike shop just suggest topping up? Start with 80ml and Every 4 weeks u top up 40ml-60ml ...by end of 4-5 months you have a road tyre as heavy as MTB :shock:

Technology is not ready and over marketing in a unregulated industry :smartass:

I can understands Tubeless was design to help the bike shop financially!!!!
Try Tufo tubeless sealant! It's great, i have used many sealants and that includes all three Orange versions.
Every hole i've had using Tufo has been sealed without me even noticing the puncture. I've just seen it at the tire surface afterwards.
I haven't tried Tufo Tubeless; but other Tufo's don't work well with latex inner tubes. Any experience here?

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 5194
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

DHG01 wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:51 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:28 pm
maxima wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:17 am
I remove my GP 5000 STR 28mm that was fill with 80ml of Silca the past 4 to 5 weeks and all have been dry up. I'm going to try something else as removing all the dry up sealant is a pain and just doesn't make sense.

Latex tubes or Light TPU tubes will be a better choice for people with no time to mess around with dry up sealant every 4 weeks that add 60-80grms to the tyres. The best part is a few local bike shop just suggest topping up? Start with 80ml and Every 4 weeks u top up 40ml-60ml ...by end of 4-5 months you have a road tyre as heavy as MTB :shock:

Technology is not ready and over marketing in a unregulated industry :smartass:

I can understands Tubeless was design to help the bike shop financially!!!!
Try Tufo tubeless sealant! It's great, i have used many sealants and that includes all three Orange versions.
Every hole i've had using Tufo has been sealed without me even noticing the puncture. I've just seen it at the tire surface afterwards.
I haven't tried Tufo Tubeless; but other Tufo's don't work well with latex inner tubes. Any experience here?
No, no i haven't used Tufo tires. Just the tubular tape and extreme sealant. The latter not in conjuction with tubeless sealant though!
Just it when i had a puncture using inner tube. It sealed that hole in an instant. Only used the tubeless sealant and those mentioned.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

BigBoyND
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

Hexsense wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:07 pm
I'd guess so too.
If not for more puncture resistance, thicker latex would also lost less air over time. That can be an advantage for ride over 6 hours.

But I also wouldn't worry using the thinner latex tube, if it's cheaper. Afterall, any Vittoria latex tube is way thicker than Vredestein latex tube.
Surely that's overkill. My Vittoria tubes lost maybe 10% per day. I'd do 3 day rides without tupping up. Starting with 110% of Silca recommended pressure and ending around 90% on the third day. Was never a problem for me. 6 hours surely shouldn't be
2019 Spec Venge 58cm 6.85kg
- R9270/R8170, Quarq, i9.65
2021 Canyon Speedmax Disc CF8 XL heavy
- R8000, P2M, SwissSide 80 + Citec Disc

Retired:
2020 Pina Prince 59.5cm 7.4kg
2017 Cervélo P5 58cm heavy

Hexsense
Posts: 2908
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Right. Vittoria latex tube seems to have some additive to reduce the air loss versus raw latex from Vredestein or just latex+color from Michelin.
So regardless if it's the thinner or thicker one. The air loss is more than acceptable for 6 hours ride.

Nejmann
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 6:25 pm

by Nejmann

So in 2022. What is the best latex tube? 😄 With 80mm valve.

frostorama
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:29 pm

by frostorama

BigBoyND wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:12 am
Hexsense wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:07 pm
I'd guess so too.
If not for more puncture resistance, thicker latex would also lost less air over time. That can be an advantage for ride over 6 hours.

But I also wouldn't worry using the thinner latex tube, if it's cheaper. Afterall, any Vittoria latex tube is way thicker than Vredestein latex tube.
Surely that's overkill. My Vittoria tubes lost maybe 10% per day. I'd do 3 day rides without tupping up. Starting with 110% of Silca recommended pressure and ending around 90% on the third day. Was never a problem for me. 6 hours surely shouldn't be
Wow.....that's really high pressure! Why so high?

I weigh 73kg and run Turbo Cottons in 26mm with Vittoria latex tubes at 65/70psi front/rear. Never had a pinch flat and find the ride really supple with loads of grip. I do tend to top up pressure before each ride, although the pressure loss is minimal from one day to the next. Note that I am UK based and ride some pretty rough roads with lots of broken surfaces.

frostorama
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:29 pm

by frostorama

Doh! Just realised you had percentage of pressure.....not psi!

Hexsense
Posts: 2908
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Nejmann wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:26 pm
So in 2022. What is the best latex tube? 😄 With 80mm valve.
Silca or Vittoria latex tube with valve extender. Choose one and pair with valve extender length that closest match to your rim depth to leave the least amount of valve expose over the rim while still compatible with pumps.


Silca's valve is 42mm
no valve extender, it's perfect for 30mm rim.
with 10mm valve extender, it's perfect for 40mm rim
with 20mm valve extender, it's perfect for 50mm rim
with 30mm valve extender, it's perfect for 60mm rim
with 40mm valve extender, it's perfect for 70mm rim

Vittoria's valve is 48mm
no valve extender, it's perfect for 36mm rim.
with 10mm valve extender, it's perfect for 46mm rim
with 20mm valve extender, it's perfect for 56mm rim
with 30mm valve extender, it's perfect for 66mm rim
with 40mm valve extender, it's perfect for 76mm rim

With these two latex tube with valve extender in 10mm increment, you can be sure you have at most 5mm too long of a valve than neccessary. Much better than traditional combo that come in 20mm increment in length.

DHG01
Posts: 604
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:45 am
No, no i haven't used Tufo tires. Just the tubular tape and extreme sealant. The latter not in conjuction with tubeless sealant though!
Just it when i had a puncture using inner tube. It sealed that hole in an instant. Only used the tubeless sealant and those mentioned.
Thank you

Nejmann
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 6:25 pm

by Nejmann

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:47 pm
Nejmann wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:26 pm
So in 2022. What is the best latex tube? 😄 With 80mm valve.
Silca or Vittoria latex tube with valve extender. Choose one and pair with valve extender length that closest match to your rim depth to leave the least amount of valve expose over the rim while still compatible with pumps.


Silca's valve is 42mm
no valve extender, it's perfect for 30mm rim.
with 10mm valve extender, it's perfect for 40mm rim
with 20mm valve extender, it's perfect for 50mm rim
with 30mm valve extender, it's perfect for 60mm rim
with 40mm valve extender, it's perfect for 70mm rim

Vittoria's valve is 48mm
no valve extender, it's perfect for 36mm rim.
with 10mm valve extender, it's perfect for 46mm rim
with 20mm valve extender, it's perfect for 56mm rim
with 30mm valve extender, it's perfect for 66mm rim
with 40mm valve extender, it's perfect for 76mm rim

With these two latex tube with valve extender in 10mm increment, you can be sure you have at most 5mm too long of a valve than neccessary. Much better than traditional combo that come in 20mm increment in length.


Yeah! You are the man! Thanks. It goes on a 60mm rim.

User avatar
C36
Posts: 1801
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Nejmann wrote:So in 2022. What is the best latex tube? Image With 80mm valve.
I don’t use long valves neither permanent extenders but just inflation extenders. One end let you open the valve screw, install, inflate, remove and tighten back the valve screw.

I have the zipp and Mavic version (the Mavic is quite better).

So I use either Vittoria / Michelin latex std tubes (must be 40mm long?) on my shallow, medium or hight rims without bothering on the valve length.

DieselCondor
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:14 pm

by DieselCondor

I believe Silca and Vittoria latex are actually from the same supplier! I have noticed a marked improvement in air retention in the last two years.
Like Hexsense said: apparently the latex has had some stuff added to improve it.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply