Upgrade from Zipp 353 NSW to 454 NSW - Opinion needed

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bleko
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:31 am

by bleko

Hello All,

I got the 353 NSW on my aero carbon bike and ended up discussing it with a guy who was telling me that the 454 NSW was faster with almost no crosswind issue.

I did some research online and found out that the consensus lean toward the 454 NSW V2 being faster than the 353 NSW. I do not do much climbing but often ride in windy condition.

Do you think upgrading to the 454 NSW would make a difference? Is the swap seems justified to you knowing I got the 353 NSW ?

Thanks for your opinion

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 5194
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I would go for a wheelset with wider rims (externally).
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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bleko
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:31 am

by bleko

Thanks what model do you have in mind ?

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 5194
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

bleko wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:31 am
Thanks what model do you have in mind ?
Hed Vanquish RC6 Pro, 21mm internal, 30.6mm external. Perfect for 28mm tires!
You know Hed was leading this ideal with aero wheels at one point. These are the wheels i would go for if i were you.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10531
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Aeolus RSL 51 and 62 are 23mm internal and 31mm external, with DT Swiss EXP hubs (DT 180 equivalent hub shell, but steel bearings.)

If you want to take a leap of faith as I have, the Ascent Polaris are absolutely wild at 69mm deep, 23mm internal and 31-35mm wide, with your choice of DT hubs.

BigBoyND
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

Aeolus RSL and HED Vanquish are great choices. I'd pick one of those over 454 every day of the week. They were on my short list, too.

I went with IndustryNine i9.65 since it is also 21mm inner, has hooks, and is over 30mm external. For a 65mm hooked wheel, the 1530g weight (measured with decals removed) is very good.
2019 Spec Venge 58cm 6.85kg
- R9270/R8170, Quarq, i9.65
2021 Canyon Speedmax Disc CF8 XL heavy
- R8000, P2M, SwissSide 80 + Citec Disc

Retired:
2020 Pina Prince 59.5cm 7.4kg
2017 Cervélo P5 58cm heavy

yingyu
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:16 am

by yingyu

bleko wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:37 pm
Hello All,

I got the 353 NSW on my aero carbon bike and ended up discussing it with a guy who was telling me that the 454 NSW was faster with almost no crosswind issue.

I did some research online and found out that the consensus lean toward the 454 NSW V2 being faster than the 353 NSW. I do not do much climbing but often ride in windy condition.

Do you think upgrading to the 454 NSW would make a difference? Is the swap seems justified to you knowing I got the 353 NSW ?

Thanks for your opinion
I had similar question after happily riding 353 for a few months, and decided to figure out by myself with an unjustified purchase of 454. I ended up using 353 on Tarmac SL7 most often. The deciding factors for me are stability and comfort, but your contexts and priorities might be different.

Stability: Some of my favorite rides are in Pacific Coast's Big Sur and Point Reyes (where the cover photo of https://www.sram.com/en/zipp/road/collections/nsw was taken), and the roads there are often windy and twitchy with little shoulder. While 454 reacts to wind direction change predictably, it takes me more mental and physical power to anticipate and counter the varying side force. Interestingly, I find 454 stable enough for my 61kg weight with at higher speed > 30kph. I suspect because 454 rims are lighter than other wheels of similar depth, it needs more speed to have the same gyroscopic stability. Maintaining speed might not be an issue for you if your local roads are flat.

Comfort: I feel 353 + Conti 28c rides like a magic carpet and 454 + Conti 25c rides like a rocket. With bigger tire, 353 allows me to run over more potholes than 454. My friend actually cracked my rear 454 when he failed to notice a pothole on a descent (probably >60kph). Warranty covered it, requiring just shipping fee, but the replacement rim cracked at two nipple holes after a few rides, so it's back to Indiana again. Note that 353 warranty covers gravel use.

Hope that helps. There's another guy on this forum who likes 454 more with a detailed write up. viewtopic.php?t=160459&start=570

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

I owned and ridden both. I did a pretty detailed write-up in another topic. I think it all depends on priorities, but if it’s going to cost you a significant amount of money to “upgrade” I don’t really think it’s worth it. Although mine literally exploded when inflating (probably due to my tape job, which I was very diligent with btw), I would throw the new Enve 4.5s into the mix. Probably a little faster on the flat than the 454s with 28s and more comfortable. Not as stiff for climbing, though.

If I were offered to choose between the 353s and the 454s, I’d choose the 454s. It’s very very close, though.

In terms of cross wind stability, the 353s are noticeably better. However, I find the 454s to be more predictable than any other deep section wheel I’ve ridden. They will get caught in cross winds but will then more predictably release if that makes sense.

For deep sections, they climb extremely well.

TLDR: Unless it’s a near even trade, I’d stick with the 353s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10531
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

BigBoyND wrote:
Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:50 am

I went with IndustryNine i9.65 since it is also 21mm inner, has hooks, and is over 30mm external. For a 65mm hooked wheel, the 1530g weight (measured with decals removed) is very good.
My only issue with Industry Nine is their hubs are slightly annoying to service with the coil springs under the pawls and the axle/bearing configuration.

BigBoyND
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

If I had a do-over (since I just discovered that wheel), I'd really look at the Ascent Polaris. Wider and deeper than all these wheels and an excellent weight with DT180 hubs.
2019 Spec Venge 58cm 6.85kg
- R9270/R8170, Quarq, i9.65
2021 Canyon Speedmax Disc CF8 XL heavy
- R8000, P2M, SwissSide 80 + Citec Disc

Retired:
2020 Pina Prince 59.5cm 7.4kg
2017 Cervélo P5 58cm heavy

bleko
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:31 am

by bleko

Hello All,

Thanks for your answers, really appreciate it.

Also I really appreciate all your suggestions about going for other brand i really want to stick with Zipp, i just love their cognition hub which is so silent. Coming from roval wheels with DT Swiss wheels i just love so much the quitness of the Zipp hub, it's a blessing :)


From what i understood there is not so much difference between the 454 and 353 - therefore kind of make me think to stick to the 353 - seems like they nailed it pretty well on the aero side and since i like to ride 28/30 mm the rim accommodate it pretty well.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



bleko
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:31 am

by bleko

Ps for a bit of background all the test I run with my 353 prove me that my average speed is faster by 5/7% when running them in 50-55 psi (rear - front) vs the 65/70 I was running on my roval cl 50.

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