Is there such a thing as an integrated handlebars and stem with a positive stem rise?

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Attermann
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Location: Denmark

by Attermann

DaveS wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:37 pm
V3Rs wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:13 pm
Since the majority of stems have a 7 degree rise, would that not be the case with integrated bar/stems?
With stems, you just flip it. Most are used as -7, not +7. With one piece bar/stem the bars would be upside down. It's apparently not practical to make both plus and minus models.
Curious if there are integrated bar and stems on the market that have these dimensions.

maybe you should read the first post again.

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boots2000
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by boots2000

Vision makes a zero rise integrated setup in short/narrow sizes. I think it is for ACR though.

V3Rs
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:54 pm

by V3Rs

Geometry seems to be misunderstood here-

When you take a 73 degree angle head tube angle and put a - 7 degree stem on it, the stem is NOT horizontal- it is actually rising upwards at 10 degrees
You need a minus 17 degree stem to have a horizontal stem. The point is that nearly everyone is riding with an upward slopng stem....

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

V3Rs wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:07 pm
Geometry seems to be misunderstood here-

When you take a 73 degree angle head tube angle and put a - 7 degree stem on it, the stem is NOT horizontal- it is actually rising upwards at 10 degrees
You need a minus 17 degree stem to have a horizontal stem. The point is that nearly everyone is riding with an upward slopng stem....

You seem to be the only one arguing about / confused about this.

We are taking about stem angles in isolation. So do all fitters. A fitter is not going to tell you that you need a stem that is angled at 10deg off the horizon when accounting for frame geometry. He’s going to tell you need an X degree, Y length stem in combination with Z reach bars to achieve the right grip/lever coordinates relative to the BB.

V3Rs
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by V3Rs

Well thank-you for clarifying....

LekkerBraai
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:59 pm

by LekkerBraai

For anyone interested, here is the complete fit profile:

Stem rise: 7 degree

Image

Sorry for the dark photo, but this is how the current stem rise looks like.

Image

LekkerBraai
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:59 pm

by LekkerBraai

nikospeed wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:40 pm
LekkerBraai wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:35 am
Sorry for the confusion, was meant to be 7degrees (not percent) rise.

Just wondering if there is an integrated or semi integrated handlebars that have a rise instead of being flat or negative.
Hmmm...when your b/f result calls for a total reach of 160mm and 7° rise (assume that's on top of your current spacer stack), I'd say
- the current bike is on the edge if being too long (long reach)
- the current bike might be (depending on current spacer stack) too low/aggressive (low stack).
What bike is it that you have been fitted on and what spacers are installed? Asking as looking for a different bike/frame might be a smarter option...

Cheers
Niko
Thanks for the advice.

The bike is a 2022 Trek Emonda, 58CM frame

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ms6073
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by ms6073

LekkerBraai wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:34 pm
Recently got a bike fit with the following geometry:

Handlebar width: 42
Handlebar reach: 80
Stem length: 80
Stem rise: 7 degree
With a stem length of 80 mm, seems like a narrower bar would be called for as well.
V3Rs wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:13 pm
Since the majority of stems have a 7 degree rise, would that not be the case with integrated bar/stems?
I thought the majority of stems had +/- 6° rise?
- Michael
"Solving problems you didn't know you had in ways you probably won't understand"

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

Something (well, maybe a few things) wierd is going on there. On the XY data the delta between Sx and Hx has only changed by 8mm, but the measured saddle bar drop has changed by 20mm. Did you change saddles?

LekkerBraai
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:59 pm

by LekkerBraai

ms6073 wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:23 pm
LekkerBraai wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:34 pm
Recently got a bike fit with the following geometry:

Handlebar width: 42
Handlebar reach: 80
Stem length: 80
Stem rise: 7 degree
With a stem length of 80 mm, seems like a narrower bar would be called for as well.
V3Rs wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:13 pm
Since the majority of stems have a 7 degree rise, would that not be the case with integrated bar/stems?
I thought the majority of stems had +/- 6° rise?
Yes, I am switcihng to 42, from the current 44. This is why im looking for an integrated option, but I haven't seen any that have a 7 degree rise, they all seem to have a negative slope. I may be wrong though!

LekkerBraai
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:59 pm

by LekkerBraai

Karvalo wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:28 pm
Something (well, maybe a few things) wierd is going on there. On the XY data the delta between Sx and Hx has only changed by 8mm, but the measured saddle bar drop has changed by 20mm. Did you change saddles?
I did! Changed from OEM which was much narrower to a 155.

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TheDoctor
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by TheDoctor

LekkerBraai wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:56 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:28 pm
Something (well, maybe a few things) wierd is going on there. On the XY data the delta between Sx and Hx has only changed by 8mm, but the measured saddle bar drop has changed by 20mm. Did you change saddles?
I did! Changed from OEM which was much narrower to a 155.
Another thing, the saddle setback is given as 22mm (old fit 23mm) from midpoint of saddle to BB centre - which means the tip would be in front of the BB? Even for tip to BB that is quite far forward.

Aside from that, I don't think there are integrated bars available with a positive stem angle. You'll be looking at a separate stem and bar (which in my view is not a bad thing but that's another discussion).

Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

TheDoctor wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:39 pm
Another thing, the saddle setback is given as 22mm (old fit 23mm) from midpoint of saddle to BB centre - which means the tip would be in front of the BB? Even for tip to BB that is quite far forward.
I just assumed the fitter was being lazy with annotation and that one measurement was in cm. Only way it makes sense (or is even physically possible).

Daneincph
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:23 am

by Daneincph

Look up Wilier J-bar. Integrated and looks like positive rise.

https://wilier.com/en/world/equipment/j ... -handlebar

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

So let’s cut to the chase. An 80mm stem (w/80mm bars) with a +7deg rise plus that many spacers on a 58cm Emonda is utterly inappropriate. If the fitter has done his job correctly, that means you bought the wrong bike for your morphological condition. Your fit is even on the upper extreme for most endurance frame geometries.

You will not find an integrated bar that will give you the necessary grip x/y position…you don’t have enough steerer left to go with something like a -7deg 90mm stem / 70mm bar equivalent.

So you’re stuck with this kind of setup unless you suddenly become more flexible and are able to both get lower while also hinging at your hips rather than painfully curling your back/spine. Your next bike should have a frame with ~20mm shorter reach and ~40mm higher stack.

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