2x12 Shimano 105 R7150 di2 2022; R7100 mech 2023

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

StiffWeenies
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

Can't find the screenshot right now but 105 Di2 will supposedly launch on June 30th 1am JST

Karvalo
Posts: 2519
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

robertbb wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 1:53 am
Even if the two are equal on quality, weight, price and performance (which is what I'd expect)
Why would you expect that? Chorus hydro is twice the price of R7020. Even with a hefty 12sp price inflation from Shimano they're still going to be in completely different budget categories.

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robertbb
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Karvalo wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 5:50 pm
robertbb wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 1:53 am
Even if the two are equal on quality, weight, price and performance (which is what I'd expect)
Why would you expect that? Chorus hydro is twice the price of R7020. Even with a hefty 12sp price inflation from Shimano they're still going to be in completely different budget categories.
I'm not so sure about this. Chorus 12 is extremely competitively priced - if it costs more than 7100 I don't expect it'll be by much. You can't compare Chorus 12 Hydro with R7020 - two different generations.

openwheelracing
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:41 am

by openwheelracing

I don't understand the claim that mechanical Ultegra and Dura ace is "nonexistent". I thought there has been two year shortage with everything sold out. Lots of stock bikes with mechanical and all sold out. Can't have it both ways.

RDY
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

Virtually never seen Ultegra and DA mechanical parts out of stock. Di2 on the other hand always sold out very fast. DA mech stock hung around for ages, and tellingly quite a few DA 12s mech kits from day 1 are still unsold at some some retailers. I can't imagine anywhere in the world has day one DA 12s di2 still available unless it was purposely held back.

New Ultegra and DA mechanical groupsets make no sense. New 105 makes very little sense when Ultegra & 105 11s continue to serve the relevant segment.

blaugrana
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

Di2 105 makes a lot of sense to have a cheaper model of modern aero bikes with internal routing. Sure, they will be heavy and still not cheap, but they will look more similar to the high end models. And mechanical 12 speed 105 makes sense to keep compatibility on wear parts (chains, chainrings, cassettes) for all mid and high end road groupsets, and to have something "modern" to equip sub 2.000€ bikes with.

Karvalo
Posts: 2519
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

RDY wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:43 pm
DA mech stock hung around for ages, and tellingly quite a few DA 12s mech kits from day 1 are still unsold at some some retailers. I can't imagine anywhere in the world has day one DA 12s di2 still available unless it was purposely held back.
That'd be quite a trick given that DA 12s mech doesn't exist.

RDY
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

Karvalo wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 5:56 pm
RDY wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:43 pm
DA mech stock hung around for ages, and tellingly quite a few DA 12s mech kits from day 1 are still unsold at some some retailers. I can't imagine anywhere in the world has day one DA 12s di2 still available unless it was purposely held back.
That'd be quite a trick given that DA 12s mech doesn't exist.
I meant rim obviously. But it's indicative of the lack of demand for anything mechanical atm. If DA 12s Di2 rim is hardly flying off the shelves, non-Di2 Ultegra or DA is hardly likely to.

Karvalo
Posts: 2519
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

RDY wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 6:18 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 5:56 pm
RDY wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:43 pm
DA mech stock hung around for ages, and tellingly quite a few DA 12s mech kits from day 1 are still unsold at some some retailers. I can't imagine anywhere in the world has day one DA 12s di2 still available unless it was purposely held back.
That'd be quite a trick given that DA 12s mech doesn't exist.
I meant rim obviously.
Since you were contrasting it with DI2 that was not at all obvious. Still isn't, really.

Karvalo
Posts: 2519
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

robertbb wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 12:30 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 5:50 pm
robertbb wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 1:53 am
Even if the two are equal on quality, weight, price and performance (which is what I'd expect)
Why would you expect that? Chorus hydro is twice the price of R7020. Even with a hefty 12sp price inflation from Shimano they're still going to be in completely different budget categories.
I'm not so sure about this. Chorus 12 is extremely competitively priced - if it costs more than 7100 I don't expect it'll be by much. You can't compare Chorus 12 Hydro with R7020 - two different generations.
Chorus isn't competitively priced with 105. It's twice as much. Shimano are definitely going to out the price up with 12sp. They're definitely not going to double it, or anything close to that.

CyclingGiraffe
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:04 pm

by CyclingGiraffe

RDY wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:43 pm
Virtually never seen Ultegra and DA mechanical parts out of stock. Di2 on the other hand always sold out very fast. DA mech stock hung around for ages, and tellingly quite a few DA 12s mech kits from day 1 are still unsold at some some retailers. I can't imagine anywhere in the world has day one DA 12s di2 still available unless it was purposely held back.

New Ultegra and DA mechanical groupsets make no sense. New 105 makes very little sense when Ultegra & 105 11s continue to serve the relevant segment.
I don't know about brick and mortar stores, but until fairly recently, many components of DA mechanical 9100 were very difficult to source through the big retailers (Competitive Cyclist, Excel, Performance, etc.), particularly braze-on front derailleurs and shifter/brake levers for both rim and disc brakes. E-bay prices were over retail. Even now, 9100 shifter/brake levers are going for more than the 9150 shifter/brake levers at places like Competitive Cyclist.

I also don't see how new 12-speed Ultegra (and especially 105) mechanical makes no sense. My impression is that both of those groups end up on a lot of complete bikes sold to people who don't race and don't particularly want to be bothered with charging their bikes just so they can shift -- these riders aren't in it for the gear, per se, but still want a nice bike for moderately long, relatively fast weekend group rides (say, 50-70 miles on a Saturday morning). I know quite a few people like that, and it sure seems that 8000 Ultegra mechanical/disc is the most popular setup among them. Also, while historically people like to pair Dura Ace with Ultegra, my impression dating back to the 7700/6500/5500 era is that Ultegra and 105 usually are more similar to each other than Dura Ace is to Ultegra, though that may have shifted some in the Di2 era.

ooo
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

Total price of 105 components from first post of this topic is ~600 eur less then Ultegra, a bit more expensive than Rival AXS.
OEM pricing is a little different. OEM can also use non-series parts, like non-hollow FC-RS520 2x12 cranks, to lower the price:

Image

//edit by NMX: Sorry we got remove request from distributor
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'

petromyzon
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

3rd tier comparisons aside it looks like in 2023 this will be a good option if you want a road bike that costs less than a decent used family car! I've had good experiences of 105 and R7000 was reviewed well.
Hopefully there will be mechanical/rim for those that want it and bonus points if it looks decent with the DA or Ultegra chainset so that those who want to custom build can save a bit of weight.

Mocs123
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 pm

by Mocs123

I wonder how Shimano will differentiate 105 Di2 from Ultegra and Dura-Ace Di2? The difference has largely come down to weight savings in the past, but as bikes tend to move from weight focused to aero focused, it doesn't seem like that is as big of factor in sales as it was a few years ago. I currently have one bike with Dura Ace Di2 (9050) and one with Ultegra Di2 (6870) but would have no reason to spend more than 105 Di2 as long as it wasn't a weight weenie build.
2015 Wilier Zero.7 Rim Brake - 6.37kg
2017 Trek Domane SLR-7 Disc Brake - 8.36kg

by Weenie


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petromyzon
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

It's usually just weight, materials, fit and finish. Much like the AXS stuff the entry level will be HEAVY but work pretty well.
I think in previous years Ultegra cassette shaping has been more refined than 105 but that is easily sorted after the first one wears out. If you are a watt weenie you'll want to use the DA/XTR level chain as it is faster and probably the only part of DA that gives a true performance advantage.

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