The Great Braking Debate Thread (Disc/Rim/Cantilever/Fixie/InsertNewTechHere)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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neeb
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by neeb

Love my EE brakes.

I'm guessing that with the final apocalypse of total disc dominance over the last couple of years we may not see any more special editions..? I was hoping for a green themed one (altough I'd settle for an El Platino reissue).

dialtone
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by dialtone

tomato wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:30 am
bobones wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:50 pm
These are the things that finally swayed it:

1/ I already have a couple of decent carbon rim brake wheelsets...
.
.
.
You were doing so well, building a case based on rational thinking, until ...
bobones wrote:11/ Durianrider says discs are crap!
Couldn't agree more on this actually. That guy is a bad influence.

by Weenie


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RyanH
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by RyanH

Shout out to @tanhalt for the recommendation on the Hed wheels. These brake exceptionally well, even with eeBrakes.

Contemplating picking up a second pair to relace to carbon ti hubs.
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gurk700
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by gurk700

Funny I looked at this thread right after I picked up 2 sets of HED Jet Black wheels (4 and 5) They are really amazing. I used them for a couple years before selling them and regretted since. Glad to be back on them. Heavy as hell but a small sacrifice for amazing ride quality and brake performance.

RyanH
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by RyanH

wheelsONfire wrote:EE brakes with Schwalbe S-One 30mm tires
Moots road fork, sanded and painted with gloss clear coat, 293g with crown race.
3T Ltd, with same crown race cut to same length is 284g.
P1010219.JPG
P1010220.JPG
P1010218.JPG
What do those tires measure out to? I have a Moots fork coming shortly.
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

RyanH wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:01 am
wheelsONfire wrote:EE brakes with Schwalbe S-One 30mm tires
Moots road fork, sanded and painted with gloss clear coat, 293g with crown race.
3T Ltd, with same crown race cut to same length is 284g.

P1010219.JPG
P1010220.JPG
P1010218.JPG
What do those tires measure out to? I have a Moots fork coming shortly.
Zipp 303 FC rim is a hooked rim with 19mm internal width. On these, 30mm.
My fork, uncut steerer tube and not sanded was 287g. Same weight with steerer tube cut and sanded, but instead with gloss clear coat. Done at a pro painter.
The crown race was 7 or 8g. It's just under 10g penalty compared to 3T Rigida LTD.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

tanhalt
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by tanhalt

RyanH wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:40 am
Shout out to @tanhalt for the recommendation on the Hed wheels. These brake exceptionally well, even with eeBrakes.

Contemplating picking up a second pair to relace to carbon ti hubs.
Nice. Glad to have helped. :beerchug:

You should see how they work with my Magura HS33 hydraulic brakes :shock:

tanhalt
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by tanhalt

gurk700 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:57 am
Funny I looked at this thread right after I picked up 2 sets of HED Jet Black wheels (4 and 5) They are really amazing. I used them for a couple years before selling them and regretted since. Glad to be back on them. Heavy as hell but a small sacrifice for amazing ride quality and brake performance.
Well...it's a good thing wheel mass is quite far down the line on priorities for cycling performance parameters then :wink:

And, as you said, in the grand scheme of things, they really aren't all that heavy...and other options for cutting wheel mass are going to make either the braking, or the aerodynamics, or both, worse.

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cveks
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by cveks

flying wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:37 am
cveks wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:20 pm
Haha I just bought ONE MORE rim brake frameset Scott CR1 Pro from 2016 for bargain deal just 380 euros complete frameset.

I will put on it Campagnolo Potenza groupset, Kinlin XR200 wheels and FSA K-Force Light crankset and with that setup weight will be less than 6.8kgs.

Whole bike will cost me less than 1400 euros to assemble.

Friend of mine, in same time in same shop bought Scott Addict 20 on the other hand for 2100 euros and it comes with Shimano 105 groupset and weights 8.4 kgs.

So I will have much lighter bike for less .

New Scott bike in that weight range is Scott Addict Rc Pro and it costs around 8500 euros.

Insane price difference if you ask me.
Nice deal :thumbup:


You will like Potenza it is quite flawless IMHO
The only thing that makes it better is swapping the crank for a H11 crank
173 grams lighter
Potenza crank was 809gr
H11 crank 636gr
I already have Potenza crankset 50/34 but I will put FSA K-Force Light crank on bike 52/36 combination together with 11-30T cassette.

If you ask me this is the best crankset ever , at least bang for buck. I like it to ride soo much so I bought 3 cranks for 3 bikes I have. I have one on Colnago C60, one on Cipollini NK1K and 3rd is on Scott CR1 Pro.

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cveks
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by cveks

warthog101 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:10 am
cveks wrote:Rim brake bikes are more aero and save 15% watts on speeds above 40 km/h.
Sure. That is why every pro tour bike is rim brake.
I mean 15% less power to travel at the same speed.
Of course they are.
All pro tour bikes are disc brakes not because they are faster but because disc brake groupsets extract much more money from average weekend warrior pockets than rim brake counterparts.

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cveks
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by cveks

tomato wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:19 am
cveks wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:20 pm
Haha I just bought ONE MORE rim brake frameset Scott CR1 Pro from 2016 for bargain deal just 380 euros complete frameset.

I will put on it Campagnolo Potenza groupset, Kinlin XR200 wheels and FSA K-Force Light crankset and with that setup weight will be less than 6.8kgs.

Whole bike will cost me less than 1400 euros to assemble.

Friend of mine, in same time in same shop bought Scott Addict 20 on the other hand for 2100 euros and it comes with Shimano 105 groupset and weights 8.4 kgs.

So I will have much lighter bike for less .

New Scott bike in that weight range is Scott Addict Rc Pro and it costs around 8500 euros.

Insane price difference if you ask me.
So, the moral of the story is that you can get more bang for your buck by buying a used bike instead of a new one? Shocking.
I bought completely new frameset! Not used. Frameset is 6 years old but it is brand new!

tomato
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by tomato

cveks wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:35 am
tomato wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:19 am
cveks wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:20 pm
Haha I just bought ONE MORE rim brake frameset Scott CR1 Pro from 2016 for bargain deal just 380 euros complete frameset.

I will put on it Campagnolo Potenza groupset, Kinlin XR200 wheels and FSA K-Force Light crankset and with that setup weight will be less than 6.8kgs.

Whole bike will cost me less than 1400 euros to assemble.

Friend of mine, in same time in same shop bought Scott Addict 20 on the other hand for 2100 euros and it comes with Shimano 105 groupset and weights 8.4 kgs.

So I will have much lighter bike for less .

New Scott bike in that weight range is Scott Addict Rc Pro and it costs around 8500 euros.

Insane price difference if you ask me.
So, the moral of the story is that you can get more bang for your buck by buying a used bike instead of a new one? Shocking.
I bought completely new frameset! Not used. Frameset is 6 years old but it is brand new!
I see. The moral of the story is that you can get more bang for your buck by buying a frame that's been sitting around for 6 years instead of a new one? Again, shocking.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

^ exactly.. not like you bought a unused collector car.. it's a bike. No one is paying 2021 prices on a 2015 frame unless it's something special. Cveks story has little merit.
2019 BMC TM01 Road UCI config 7.36kg

warthog101
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by warthog101


cveks wrote:
warthog101 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:10 am
cveks wrote:Rim brake bikes are more aero and save 15% watts on speeds above 40 km/h.
Sure. That is why every pro tour bike is rim brake.
I mean 15% less power to travel at the same speed.
Of course they are.
All pro tour bikes are disc brakes not because they are faster but because disc brake groupsets extract much more money from average weekend warrior pockets than rim brake counterparts.
My point was that if rim brake bikes were 15% more efficient, as you suggested, everybody in the protour would be riding them in order to win.
They are not.
I therefore see that statement as demonstrably false.

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mgrl
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by mgrl

cveks wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:34 am
warthog101 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:10 am
cveks wrote:Rim brake bikes are more aero and save 15% watts on speeds above 40 km/h.
Sure. That is why every pro tour bike is rim brake.
I mean 15% less power to travel at the same speed.
Of course they are.
All pro tour bikes are disc brakes not because they are faster but because disc brake groupsets extract much more money from average weekend warrior pockets than rim brake counterparts.
cveks wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:34 am

Rim brakes are far more superior than disc brakes. They give you lighter bike for 500-600 grams plus you get less drag which means you go up to 15% faster for same amount of watts you produce.

Let's be generous and assume this 15% speed advantage doesn't come with any additional mechanical drag and is all aero, otherwise this becomes even more ludicrous.

To go 15% faster with the same CdA requires you to put out (1.15^3) as many watts. To go 15% faster with the same watts requires a CdA which is (1.15^-3) times as big, which is about 0.65. So you're claiming that a rim brake bike and rider have only 65% of the drag of the disk brake bike and rider.

This is a larger saving than the bike contributes to the drag in total. You're not comparing rim and disc, you're comparing unrestricted ebike and disc.

Note also that 15% less drag and 15% faster are very different things, and also this is not a claim from the gcn video - it's just cveks pulling things from where the sun doesn't shine

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